Stream: ctcft

Topic: social hours and breakout rooms


view this post on Zulip nikomatsakis (May 17 2021 at 20:00):

There seems to be a lot of interest, so creating a topic for this

view this post on Zulip Mara (May 17 2021 at 20:01):

hey!

view this post on Zulip Mara (May 17 2021 at 20:01):

/me turns up the music in this zulip stream and hands out snacks and drinks

view this post on Zulip Doc Jones (May 17 2021 at 20:07):

These are commonly used in some of the Rust Meetup groups. This is the most recent event I attended where breakout rooms were used for getting to know each other. https://www.meetup.com/Rust-Los-Angeles/events/276587775

view this post on Zulip nikomatsakis (May 17 2021 at 20:08):

@Doc Jones I really like the idea of "mentored sprints"

view this post on Zulip nikomatsakis (May 17 2021 at 20:08):

one thing I was going to note is that discord has audio-only rooms and stuff too

view this post on Zulip nikomatsakis (May 17 2021 at 20:08):

which could be a nice fit

view this post on Zulip Jane Lusby (May 17 2021 at 20:08):

I really like the idea of using a spacial chat service

view this post on Zulip Jane Lusby (May 17 2021 at 20:08):

makes it much more natural for large groups to separate into conversations and makes it easy to move between them

view this post on Zulip Jane Lusby (May 17 2021 at 20:09):

and after looking at the workadventu.re and gather.town websites I'm all excited about a potential rust-lang virtual office space

view this post on Zulip nikomatsakis (May 17 2021 at 20:09):

Yeah, I thought @Daniel Silverstone's suggeston sounded cool -- not sure what that was.

view this post on Zulip nikomatsakis (May 17 2021 at 20:09):

was it gather.town ?

view this post on Zulip Jane Lusby (May 17 2021 at 20:09):

I want an office room for the error handling project group

view this post on Zulip Jane Lusby (May 17 2021 at 20:09):

nikomatsakis said:

was it gather.town ?

I think daniel's suggestion was workadventu.re

view this post on Zulip Jane Lusby (May 17 2021 at 20:10):

Ralf recommended gather.town

view this post on Zulip nikomatsakis (May 17 2021 at 20:10):

I kind of want to get a VR headset now

view this post on Zulip Jane Lusby (May 17 2021 at 20:10):

:D

view this post on Zulip Doc Jones (May 17 2021 at 20:10):

Agreed. I've attended Office hours events that use the audio rooms on Discord. It also has a screen share feature. Group size is still a factor. But if the group is specific to a content topic that can also help to shape attendance.

view this post on Zulip Jane Lusby (May 17 2021 at 20:10):

the problem with VR headsets is they take a while to get used to, I still get headaches wearing one for more than an hour

view this post on Zulip Jane Lusby (May 17 2021 at 20:10):

(my partner is Extremely into VR)

view this post on Zulip Jane Lusby (May 17 2021 at 20:11):

but VR would be fun too

view this post on Zulip Mara (May 17 2021 at 20:11):

so is the foundation going to sponsor VR headsets to every rust contributor? ;D

view this post on Zulip oliver (May 17 2021 at 20:11):

I'm here

view this post on Zulip oliver (May 17 2021 at 20:11):

:P

view this post on Zulip Jane Lusby (May 17 2021 at 20:11):

Mara said:

so is the foundation going to sponsor VR headsets to every rust contributor? ;D

haha, I've actually brought this up in convos in the past, mostly jokingly as a cheaper alternative to plane tickets for AllHands

view this post on Zulip oliver (May 17 2021 at 20:12):

going shopping tho ttyl

view this post on Zulip nikomatsakis (May 17 2021 at 20:13):

Mara said:

so is the foundation going to sponsor VR headsets to every rust contributor? ;D

ship it :) (literally!)

view this post on Zulip Daniel Silverstone (May 17 2021 at 20:19):

Jane Lusby said:

I think daniel's suggestion was workadventu.re

It was indeed - We have a workadventure for both floors of our real life office, and our own jitsi instance etc. which means you can "go to the office and have a meeting" from your laptop :grinning: You can go to the break room while you make a cup of tea at home, etc.

view this post on Zulip Jane Lusby (May 17 2021 at 20:44):

seems to be pretty easy to make a room for gather.town: https://gather.town/i/B0vejNJS

view this post on Zulip Jane Lusby (May 17 2021 at 20:47):

similarly: https://play.workadventu.re/@/ctcsh/social-hour/office

view this post on Zulip Jane Lusby (May 17 2021 at 20:49):

if anyone is interested in testing either of these services I created some rooms

view this post on Zulip Daniel Silverstone (May 17 2021 at 21:08):

@Jane Lusby I've pinged the relevant team lead on IRC, so hopefully I'll be able to get some info for you in the coming days.

view this post on Zulip Jane Lusby (May 17 2021 at 21:15):

awesome, ty Daniel

view this post on Zulip RalfJ (May 18 2021 at 16:18):

Jane Lusby said:

and after looking at the workadventu.re and gather.town websites I'm all excited about a potential rust-lang virtual office space

"office" sounds way too boring, why recreate that in the virtual space? let's make them nice virtual worlds with all sorts of fun stuff and spaceships. :D

view this post on Zulip Daniel Silverstone (May 18 2021 at 16:31):

Who says your office isn't a rainforest in a biodome in space?

view this post on Zulip RalfJ (May 18 2021 at 16:32):

:D

view this post on Zulip RalfJ (May 18 2021 at 16:32):

I guess what I am really saying is, for many of us here Rust is not work time, and so at least I'd rather not "go to the office" for Rust stuff :)

view this post on Zulip nikomatsakis (May 18 2021 at 16:33):

I was just playing about with gather.town

view this post on Zulip nikomatsakis (May 18 2021 at 16:33):

kind of cool

view this post on Zulip Daniel Silverstone (May 18 2021 at 16:35):

We (at work) started with a gather.town virtual pub as our friday social space, before we moved on to a self-hosted workadventure for a virtual office. The technologies are much of a muchness, but workadventure look a bit more open-source friendly IIRC

view this post on Zulip Jane Lusby (May 18 2021 at 18:29):

RalfJ said:

I guess what I am really saying is, for many of us here Rust is not work time, and so at least I'd rather not "go to the office" for Rust stuff :)

The Rust Community

view this post on Zulip Jane Lusby (May 18 2021 at 18:29):

as in, a town full of buildings for the various teams

view this post on Zulip nikomatsakis (May 18 2021 at 19:10):

this sounds so cool people

view this post on Zulip nikomatsakis (May 18 2021 at 19:10):

I sort of want it to be a text adventure though :P

view this post on Zulip Doc Jones (May 18 2021 at 19:44):

This is a proximity chat service that I've tried. https://spatial.chat/ Ultimately, the trial was unsuccessful, but it's a different idea than a virtual office that persists where one might drop in to leave notes or schedule meetings. The only concern that I would add is not letting the tool get in the way of the purpose for gathering. That's likely a different consideration for social hours versus things like office hours or mentoring.

view this post on Zulip Doc Jones (May 19 2021 at 03:35):

I found this talk by Tania Allard on her experience developing the Mentored Sprints program. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGUHyP8ki_Q

view this post on Zulip nikomatsakis (May 19 2021 at 13:15):

Cool!

view this post on Zulip flip1995 (May 19 2021 at 14:07):

Having a Rust village where every team / WG / ... lives in it's own house and can visit each other sounds really cool. Every time I think about this I want it a little bit more :)

view this post on Zulip pnkfelix (May 19 2021 at 14:42):

nikomatsakis said:

I sort of want it to be a text adventure though :P

Ah, should we make a MUD/MUSH/MOO?

view this post on Zulip pnkfelix (May 19 2021 at 14:42):

actually… that sounds kind of awesome...

view this post on Zulip pnkfelix (May 19 2021 at 14:43):

of course our rust one needs to be called a MURK

view this post on Zulip pnkfelix (May 19 2021 at 14:43):

“Multi User Rust Kavern"

view this post on Zulip Doc Jones (May 19 2021 at 14:59):

The progress of this conversation is beyond amusing. How did we get from let's talk about how to include more people in engagement and mentoring to - wait! I know...let's build a game. :laughter_tears:

view this post on Zulip Doc Jones (May 19 2021 at 15:02):

Speaking for the non-gaming devs of the world. You do you. LOL "hyperbole alert"

view this post on Zulip pnkfelix (May 19 2021 at 15:58):

heh, I thought gamification was a proven method for driving engagement! ;)

view this post on Zulip Doc Jones (May 19 2021 at 16:20):

pnkfelix said:

heh, I thought gamification was a proven method for driving engagement! ;)

For those who are gamers this is true. I think Meetup groups (there are a growing number of Rust specific monthly meetups) and Women Who Code leading mentoring and social gatherings outside a game construct are excellent examples of the options. Building a game versus starting a Zoom call or discord voice chat would create a delay and effort burden that I think volunteers would rather avoid. You are free to infer that this volunteer would be one of those avoiders. :grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes:

view this post on Zulip pnkfelix (May 19 2021 at 16:32):

That’s a great point, thanks

view this post on Zulip pnkfelix (May 19 2021 at 16:34):

(my comment was somewhat tongue-in-cheek, and of course there’s no reason to wait to do things like start Zoom calls or Discord voice chats. But the point you make remains a solid one: There is a significant population that won’t respond to gamification.)

view this post on Zulip Doc Jones (May 19 2021 at 16:37):

I couldn't find a thank you emoji.

view this post on Zulip oliver (May 19 2021 at 16:44):

I've been curious about this previously: https://fosstodon.org/web/statuses/106110500743954306

view this post on Zulip oliver (May 19 2021 at 16:55):

though the question at hand isn't about 'recognition'

view this post on Zulip Doc Jones (May 19 2021 at 16:59):

Wow! 78% responded "no thanks" That's a higher number than I would have predicted.

view this post on Zulip oliver (May 19 2021 at 17:06):

I admit my own surprise as well since there is a body or research related to this, this is a FOSS community being polled so that may have been the cause of divergence from what I think are general expectations that gamification works

view this post on Zulip Josh Triplett (May 19 2021 at 17:25):

pnkfelix said:

“Multi User Rust Kavern"

Community Rust Adventure Ballad (CRAB)

view this post on Zulip Josh Triplett (May 19 2021 at 17:26):

oliver said:

I admit my own surprise as well since there is a body or research related to this, this is a FOSS community being polled so that may have been the cause of divergence from what I think are general expectations that gamification works

Might also be good to look at what "works" means, because some forms of gamification are fun for those "playing" while other forms may increase engagement at the expense of those involved.

view this post on Zulip Josh Triplett (May 19 2021 at 17:28):

The concept of a shared adventure is fun to entertain, though I'd never want it to be a required participatory medium. But that survey was asking more about things like badges/achievements/etc.

view this post on Zulip oliver (May 19 2021 at 17:39):

I agree that there isn't a direct correlation between that poll to the question at hand

view this post on Zulip Jane Lusby (May 19 2021 at 17:55):

this doesn't really feel like gamification to me

view this post on Zulip Josh Triplett (May 19 2021 at 17:55):

@Jane Lusby I agree; that was what I was getting at.

view this post on Zulip Jane Lusby (May 19 2021 at 17:55):

like, gamifying this would be having an exp bar or inventory system or something on your avatar in the virtual meeting space

view this post on Zulip Jane Lusby (May 19 2021 at 17:56):

this is just using games technology to implement a conferencing system

view this post on Zulip Josh Triplett (May 19 2021 at 17:56):

"let's have a fun shared virtual space as an optional thing people can enjoy together" is very different than "let's add achievements and variable-reward mechanisms to make you want to code harder" :)

view this post on Zulip Jane Lusby (May 19 2021 at 17:56):

yea

view this post on Zulip Josh Triplett (May 19 2021 at 17:56):

I think "gamification" feels more strongly associated with the latter.

view this post on Zulip pnkfelix (May 19 2021 at 18:00):

(I’m the one who first used the word “gamification”, which was, again, a tongue-in-cheek response to Doc Jones’ note.)

view this post on Zulip oliver (May 19 2021 at 18:03):

I think this is gamification of social interaction, incentivization would be related to recognition or rewards

view this post on Zulip Doc Jones (May 19 2021 at 18:04):

Yeah, it sounds like effort into creating a space for social interaction is a separate thing from the mentoring program which would be best served by the least possible barriers to participation by people of various levels with some more easily intimidated than others. It's a challenge to create a shared experience with everyone here for the models used by Women Who Code and Mentored Sprints. I wish I could do that. Open to suggestions.

It might surprise you to hear that even with the excellent Awesome Rust mentors list I've found a cold reach out to connect to be a barrier for me.

view this post on Zulip oliver (May 19 2021 at 18:08):

I think at best the poll merely suggests that the ctcft equivalent of digital hats may not be enough to get that response you want

view this post on Zulip oliver (May 19 2021 at 18:09):

*results haven't been replicated ;)

view this post on Zulip oliver (May 19 2021 at 18:12):

I do want to say that I personally like gamification and I hope I'm not cursing anything good that may have come out of this, just ignore me :)


Last updated: Jan 26 2022 at 08:02 UTC