Stream: ctcft

Topic: Maintainer workload brainstorming session


view this post on Zulip Joshua Nelson (Nov 22 2021 at 18:54):

@Doc Jones and @eholk and I were chatting after the social hour today about ideas for reducing the amount of work maintainers have to do - as more people start contributing it becomes more work for the existing maintainers, so it would be great to offload the work they do to new members where possible. Is anyone interested in joining a meeting to brainstorm ideas?

Just some off the cuff ideas we've come up with so far:

view this post on Zulip Joshua Nelson (Nov 22 2021 at 19:00):

We also talked about having project managers available for teams that want them, to do things like prioritize issues, plan meetings, and help figure out a long-term vision; a lot of the design comes from RFCs of course, but an example where they could help would be something like rustfmt's subtree switch where it was unclear whether 2.0 should still be maintained or not. @Doc Jones suggested that we could have pathways for existing contributors to become project managers if they want to.

view this post on Zulip Jane Lusby [she/her] (Nov 22 2021 at 19:01):

I'd love to participate in any meeting around this

view this post on Zulip Doc Jones (Nov 22 2021 at 19:02):

The example was the program managers like the Linux Foundation has. I'll find the link and share it when I get a chance this afternoon.

view this post on Zulip Joshua Nelson (Nov 22 2021 at 19:03):

(I think I confused project managers with program managers, I'm not sure what the difference is.)

view this post on Zulip Joshua Nelson (Nov 22 2021 at 19:03):

(and are they related to product managers ... ?)

view this post on Zulip Joshua Nelson (Nov 22 2021 at 19:06):

Jane Lusby [she/her] said:

I'd love to participate in any meeting around this

Cool! I have lots of free time this week but I suspect that people will be busy either because of the short notice or thanksgiving. I can set up a doodle for some times in a couple weeks?

view this post on Zulip Nick Cameron (Nov 22 2021 at 19:07):

The definitions are a bit fuzzy, IMO a programme manager is someone who is both a project manager and a product manager, other definitions may vary

view this post on Zulip technetos (Nov 22 2021 at 19:07):

we dont really have product managers here tho

view this post on Zulip Jane Lusby [she/her] (Nov 22 2021 at 19:09):

if anything I'd argue that core should fill the role of product managers

view this post on Zulip Jane Lusby [she/her] (Nov 22 2021 at 19:09):

since as I understand it a product manager's role is technical direction of the product

view this post on Zulip Jane Lusby [she/her] (Nov 22 2021 at 19:10):

doing user research and prioritizing new feature development

view this post on Zulip Jane Lusby [she/her] (Nov 22 2021 at 19:10):

right now we have bottom up product management where individual contributors push features they care about

view this post on Zulip Jane Lusby [she/her] (Nov 22 2021 at 19:11):

so in this case I'd assume we mean project manager

view this post on Zulip Jane Lusby [she/her] (Nov 22 2021 at 19:11):

which is someone who helps team members coordinate

view this post on Zulip Jane Lusby [she/her] (Nov 22 2021 at 19:11):

( i think??)

view this post on Zulip bjorn3 (Nov 22 2021 at 19:33):

re cargo bisect-rustc I should still have the bot at https://github.com/bjorn3/cargo-bisect-rustc-bot running.

view this post on Zulip Doc Jones (Nov 22 2021 at 19:42):

Every company defines theses three titles to suit their needs. The one thing that is consistent across companies is that the differing titles refer to the level or scope of activity.

Product Mgrs work with products. They may manager more than one at a time, but they are concerned with "the what" or a product compared to engineering who are concerned with "the how".

Program Mgrs work with programs versus a single project. They are more technical than product managers and more strategic than project managers, generally speaking. They work across products or projects and/or functional teams when compared to an engineering manager who is concerned with a specific team's tasks.

Project Mgrs work with projects which may be products or may be an engineering initiative like developer tools or devops systems. They often manage more than one project but aren't responsible for products or programs.

Anyhoo, my example was specific versus the more general ideas of theses titles. The Linux Foundations has Program Managers who can be called in to support their various projects.

This is quite a bit off topic now. The goal and point was a brainstorming session. lol

view this post on Zulip Eric Huss (Nov 22 2021 at 19:57):

I'd also like to join in if possible.

view this post on Zulip flip1995 (Nov 22 2021 at 19:57):

Looking at how little we managed to address from our Clippy Roadmap 2021, I'd also be interested in joining a brainstorming session.

view this post on Zulip technetos (Nov 22 2021 at 19:58):

at this point can we move this discussion to a non ctcft stream?

view this post on Zulip Doc Jones (Nov 22 2021 at 20:00):

technetos said:

at this point can we move this discussion to a non ctcft stream?

Happy to, but where?

view this post on Zulip Doc Jones (Nov 22 2021 at 20:09):

If you are interested in participating in a Maintainer Workload brainstorming session, here's a sign up form for receiving a calendar invitation.
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1ggCeTgcNuGk7fcmw8jFgHfmVrNpzq4_SRXSFd1OU8SY

@Jane Lusby [she/her] @Joshua Nelson @eholk @Eric Huss and anyone else?

view this post on Zulip Joshua Nelson (Nov 22 2021 at 20:33):

@Doc Jones the "day of week" option only allows one answer - maybe use a radio selector instead so people can give multiple days? I worry we're going to have enough time scheduling as is :sweat_smile:

view this post on Zulip Joshua Nelson (Nov 22 2021 at 20:33):

I miss "Find a time" from google calendar, unfortunately it only works if everyone uses google calendar and is willing to make their busy times public

view this post on Zulip Doc Jones (Nov 22 2021 at 20:42):

Joshua Nelson said:

Doc Jones the "day of week" option only allows one answer - maybe use a radio selector instead so people can give multiple days? I worry we're going to have enough time scheduling as is :sweat_smile:

That's why there is a second choice question for day of week. It's unlikely we will hit a day/time that works for everyone, and holding down choices to just 2 makes overlap more likely.

view this post on Zulip eholk (Nov 23 2021 at 03:01):

Joshua Nelson said:

(and are they related to product managers ... ?)

I always get confused about the difference between the various PM roles too!


Last updated: Jan 26 2022 at 08:21 UTC