Stream: t-compiler/wg-incr-comp

Topic: change meeting time or other changes to drive engagement


view this post on Zulip pnkfelix (Apr 20 2021 at 12:21):

Hi @wg-incr-comp

view this post on Zulip pnkfelix (Apr 20 2021 at 12:21):

So we've sort of stalled on our bi-weekly meetings. the last two or three have all been cancelled, and I can understand why

view this post on Zulip pnkfelix (Apr 20 2021 at 12:22):

@Wesley Wiser pointed out that we may want to change the meeting time, and that may be true

view this post on Zulip pnkfelix (Apr 20 2021 at 12:22):

I also think that we might benefit from setting some more concrete goals for what we will try to accomplish

view this post on Zulip pnkfelix (Apr 20 2021 at 12:23):

e.g. instead of me just saying "hmm at some point we should discuss some of these MCP's...", we could instead actually try to schedule synchronous time to discuss them.

view this post on Zulip pnkfelix (Apr 20 2021 at 12:24):

also, we could move to doing things on Zulip instead of Zoom. I still think synchronous meetings have value, but if the video recordings or just the "live presence" is causing problems, then the slightly async approach offered by chat systems like Zulip may be more attractice.

view this post on Zulip Wesley Wiser (Apr 20 2021 at 13:40):

I think trying it on Zulip instead of Zoom is a good idea. We can always switch back if we decide it isn't creating more value or participation.

view this post on Zulip Wesley Wiser (Apr 20 2021 at 13:42):

Perhaps the next meeting we have should be determining what those concrete goals are? There are few people actively working in the incr-comp space currently (@cjgillot, @Aaron Hill and @mw come to mind). It would be great if some of those folks could attend and we could set some goals that support the work they are already doing :smile:

view this post on Zulip mw (Apr 20 2021 at 15:08):

I can confirm that for me generally the barrier of entry is way lower with zulip than with zoom - not only for participating but also (and maybe even more so) for catching up on meetings/discussions I missed. I hardly ever feel that I have the time to watch a recorded meeting :)

view this post on Zulip mw (Apr 20 2021 at 15:10):

Also, publicly and indefinitely available video recordings do make me uncomfortable (as I've mentioned to @pnkfelix before).

view this post on Zulip cjgillot (Apr 20 2021 at 17:13):

I completely agree we need to set some goals for the WG.
About meeting time: I'd prefer Zulip too, and if possible after 5:00 PM Central Europe time.

view this post on Zulip DPC (Apr 20 2021 at 17:28):

long time lurker :stuck_out_tongue: would love it shifted to zulip as well, much easier to follow

view this post on Zulip pnkfelix (Apr 29 2021 at 19:52):

Okay so I’ve had more thoughts on this

view this post on Zulip pnkfelix (Apr 29 2021 at 19:52):

It seems like we should absolutely switch to zulip

view this post on Zulip pnkfelix (Apr 29 2021 at 19:52):

but also

view this post on Zulip pnkfelix (Apr 29 2021 at 19:53):

I am thinking: Maybe we hold two short meetings on the same day, once a week

view this post on Zulip pnkfelix (Apr 29 2021 at 19:53):

where the early meeting is meant to accommodate EU (at least)

view this post on Zulip pnkfelix (Apr 29 2021 at 19:53):

and the later one accommodates West Coast of USA

view this post on Zulip pnkfelix (Apr 29 2021 at 19:54):

the main question I have with that structure is whether to encourage some people to attend both meetings

view this post on Zulip pnkfelix (Apr 29 2021 at 19:54):

to allow for some chance of overlap that isn’t just reading logs

view this post on Zulip pnkfelix (Apr 29 2021 at 19:54):

I’ve been waking up earlier lately. Its possible I could make an earlier time work for me, especially if its hosted just on Zulip

view this post on Zulip Wesley Wiser (Apr 29 2021 at 21:07):

Do we know of people the later meeting would enable to participate or is there just a hope that will allow more people to attend?

view this post on Zulip pnkfelix (Apr 29 2021 at 21:21):

I guess that’s a good point. I don’t know if there’s anyone on West Coast who would participate if we offered a later meeting time

view this post on Zulip pnkfelix (Apr 29 2021 at 21:21):

but this was just as much motivated by my wanting to be able to offer a better meeting time to EU folks

view this post on Zulip pnkfelix (Apr 29 2021 at 21:22):

maybe that’s just as much of a mistake. 8:15 EST is what, 4:15 in EU? Would an earlier time help anyone?

view this post on Zulip Wesley Wiser (Apr 29 2021 at 21:23):

cjgillot asked for "after 5:00 PM Central Europe time"

view this post on Zulip Wesley Wiser (Apr 29 2021 at 21:24):

I think personally I would vote for 10am Eastern time which I think would be 6pm CET?

view this post on Zulip pnkfelix (Apr 29 2021 at 21:27):

isn’t CET 6 hours ahead?

view this post on Zulip pnkfelix (Apr 29 2021 at 21:28):

/me looks

view this post on Zulip pnkfelix (Apr 29 2021 at 21:28):

yeah 6pm CET is 12pm ET

view this post on Zulip mw (Apr 30 2021 at 12:04):

May I ask what the purpose of the meeting is exactly? incr. comp. related triage? design discussions?

view this post on Zulip mw (Apr 30 2021 at 12:10):

For me, it is unlikely that I would be able to attend a meeting that is outside of regular CET office hours.

view this post on Zulip pnkfelix (Apr 30 2021 at 15:03):

so some people need it to be within CET office hours, and others need it to be outside of CET office huors

view this post on Zulip pnkfelix (Apr 30 2021 at 15:03):

the intet of the meeting is for triage and design discussions

view this post on Zulip pnkfelix (Apr 30 2021 at 15:03):

at least, that’s my take on it

view this post on Zulip pnkfelix (Apr 30 2021 at 15:03):

we haven’t necessarily been good at either

view this post on Zulip pnkfelix (Apr 30 2021 at 15:04):

but I think its useful to try to have synchronized chatter some of the time

view this post on Zulip Wesley Wiser (Apr 30 2021 at 18:06):

I think, for the upcoming meeting, part of the focus should be what the WG should be doing to support the work that is being done around incremental. Maybe this is just a matter of making sure reviews are getting done but I think it would be good to have a discussion about what goals are being worked towards.

view this post on Zulip pnkfelix (Apr 30 2021 at 20:26):

okay, yes. My answer was a more general: “What is the standing meeting for"

view this post on Zulip pnkfelix (Apr 30 2021 at 20:27):

but Wesley is right that a focused conversation, especially with the expected change in participant due to the planned shift in meeting medium (and time? Not clear yet), these things mean that a focused conversation on “what are our immediate goals” would be good.

view this post on Zulip mw (May 03 2021 at 08:12):

Thanks, @pnkfelix! That answers my question. I think having a standing meeting for triage makes sense. For design discussions I have the feeling that standing meetings don't work particularly well. It's often only one or two people who really know about the topic being discussed and making a commitment to read up on every topic being discussed beforehand is rarely feasible timewise.

Maybe it would be a good idea to set an overarching theme or topic for the "season" and declare a soft goal that the entire WG will be working on that for a number of months? That way it would easier to get acquainted with a topic (which might be doubly true for newcomers) and then find reviewers. And if more folks are actually up to speed with the topic, it would be easier to have useful design discussions on a more regular basis. Just some thoughts.

view this post on Zulip pnkfelix (May 03 2021 at 12:27):

For design discussions I have the feeling that standing meetings don't work particularly well. It's often only one or two people who really know about the topic being discussed and making a commitment to read up on every topic being discussed beforehand is rarely feasible timewise.

I agree with this. A practice Niko and I have been playing with, adopted from Amazon, is to require short write ups that are digestible in the meeting. So obviously for that to work, meeting topics need to be established well ahead of time.

When I said the meeting was for triage and design, I was mostly thinking that having a standing slot reserved is a good idea, and that saying it was “just for triage” might be too narrow when we might want to pre-schedule topics to discuss during future meetings in that same slot


Last updated: Oct 21 2021 at 20:33 UTC