Stream: wg-governance

Topic: pre-rfc (outside meetings)


Val Grimm (Mar 26 2020 at 16:58, on Zulip):

nikomatsakis said:

I'd probably add the informal (or maybe formal) rule that when selecting a liaison, you look at all the other projects that they are involved in (across all teams) and judge if they really have capacity. My hunch is people should do at most 2 or 3 things at a time -- and only 1 of them should be a "group".

(Note: I know because I violate this rule quite fragrantly :P)

@nikomatsakis Will it be obvious from looking at some particularly GitHub search/view in rust-lang and (separately) other related repos what projects someone is involved in across all teams? If not, is this something to fix?

BatmanAoD (Kyle Strand) (Mar 26 2020 at 17:03, on Zulip):

If nothing else, it could probably be done by searching rust-lang/team.

nikomatsakis (Mar 26 2020 at 17:04, on Zulip):

@Val Grimm it won't be, but if we do this right, I'd like to see that information collected and available

Val Grimm (Mar 26 2020 at 17:05, on Zulip):

What would be the best way to proceed? I can think of several but am aware I lack context? Also a response can wait as this is not on the agenda for the meeting today.

BatmanAoD (Kyle Strand) (Mar 26 2020 at 17:06, on Zulip):

I think at some point rust-lang/team can be updated to have a "shepherd" field for project groups. Not sure how much work that will be.

nikomatsakis (Mar 26 2020 at 17:17, on Zulip):

that'd be easy enough, though there was also discussion of renaming "shepherd" to "lead"

nikomatsakis (Mar 26 2020 at 17:17, on Zulip):

personally I sort of prefer shepherd

nikomatsakis (Mar 26 2020 at 17:17, on Zulip):

but I'm not sure if there's a real difference

BatmanAoD (Kyle Strand) (Mar 26 2020 at 17:18, on Zulip):

Ack, I was thinking of the missing "liaison" field.

BatmanAoD (Kyle Strand) (Mar 26 2020 at 17:19, on Zulip):

Right now that's conflated with "lead"

Val Grimm (Mar 26 2020 at 17:24, on Zulip):

If there is confusion about names then maybe the names are unclear (:

Val Grimm (Mar 26 2020 at 17:24, on Zulip):

Or their definitions

BatmanAoD (Kyle Strand) (Mar 26 2020 at 17:25, on Zulip):

Well, "shepherd" is also not currently an existing field, but Niko's right that it aligns pretty well with the existing "leads" field

BatmanAoD (Kyle Strand) (Mar 26 2020 at 17:26, on Zulip):

whereas liaisons doesn't, really

nikomatsakis (Mar 26 2020 at 17:39, on Zulip):

I think in practice the liaison is also a kind of lead -- but it's not 100% clear :)

nikomatsakis (Mar 26 2020 at 17:39, on Zulip):

well no I take that back

BatmanAoD (Kyle Strand) (Mar 26 2020 at 17:46, on Zulip):

I mean, it's close enough that currently we're listing both liaisons and shepherds as "leads" in team

Val Grimm (Mar 26 2020 at 17:48, on Zulip):

how many roles are needed?

Val Grimm (Mar 26 2020 at 17:48, on Zulip):

how would you describe the differences between the roles?

Val Grimm (Mar 26 2020 at 17:48, on Zulip):

(I'm going to ignore RFCs here)

Val Grimm (Mar 26 2020 at 17:48, on Zulip):

(want to hear what is in your head)

nikomatsakis (Mar 26 2020 at 17:50, on Zulip):

so I see two distinct ways to look at this

nikomatsakis (Mar 26 2020 at 17:51, on Zulip):

I think my original thought was that the

nikomatsakis (Mar 26 2020 at 17:52, on Zulip):

and maybe the liaison is also a shepherd

Val Grimm (Mar 26 2020 at 17:52, on Zulip):

Is it ideal that this would be a combined role?

Val Grimm (Mar 26 2020 at 17:52, on Zulip):

Or is it preferable for it not to be?

nikomatsakis (Mar 26 2020 at 17:52, on Zulip):

but I think another valid thing to say would be: each project group has some leads, at least one must be a team member, and they need to share those duties in some way that works

Val Grimm (Mar 26 2020 at 17:53, on Zulip):

by team member you mean core Lang team?

Val Grimm (Mar 26 2020 at 17:53, on Zulip):

or project team member

nikomatsakis (Mar 26 2020 at 17:54, on Zulip):

I mean member of whatever team(s) the project group is associated with

Val Grimm (Mar 26 2020 at 17:54, on Zulip):

ok

nikomatsakis (Mar 26 2020 at 17:54, on Zulip):

my motivations for separating out roles a bit:

nikomatsakis (Mar 26 2020 at 17:54, on Zulip):
nikomatsakis (Mar 26 2020 at 17:55, on Zulip):

so it'd be nice to have a way where they see a good project and they can help it move along without having to invest a ton of time

nikomatsakis (Mar 26 2020 at 17:55, on Zulip):
nikomatsakis (Mar 26 2020 at 17:55, on Zulip):

for a lot of the teams that aren't oriented around coding, it's really hard to figure out the "path to membership"

nikomatsakis (Mar 26 2020 at 17:56, on Zulip):

nikomatsakis said:

it won't be, but if we do this right, I'd like to see that information collected and available

btw what I meant by this is not so much that we can scrape the team repo -- that tells you something about what groups someone is involved in -- but I'd like to see us just doing a better job collecting the projects overall, not all of which will be "groups" I should think ..

Val Grimm (Mar 26 2020 at 17:57, on Zulip):

so liaison is a team member, and they may also be, but are unlikely to be/better not to be the shepherd, for reasons of time and being spread too thin?

Val Grimm (Mar 26 2020 at 17:57, on Zulip):

So then it becomes a questions to trying to figure out the technical or conceptual requirements for being aware of projects

Val Grimm (Mar 26 2020 at 17:57, on Zulip):

I need to wander around in the Github a bit more to muse about this I suppose

nikomatsakis (Mar 26 2020 at 17:58, on Zulip):

we've been wrestling with this a bit in the compiler-team repo

nikomatsakis (Mar 26 2020 at 17:58, on Zulip):

I don't think we've quite got it figured out yet but we're getting there

Val Grimm (Mar 26 2020 at 18:00, on Zulip):

would it be helpful to interview someone from the compiler team to summarize that?

nikomatsakis (Mar 26 2020 at 20:57, on Zulip):

Well, I'm on the team :)

nikomatsakis (Mar 26 2020 at 20:57, on Zulip):

I'm not sure there's a better person

Last update: Apr 03 2020 at 18:20UTC