Stream: wg-governance

Topic: Handling Alumni


XAMPPRocky (Feb 27 2020 at 18:42, on Zulip):

One topic that is coming up more often is handling people leaving the project, we recently had a couple of members step back from the project. We don't really have any documentation on what people need to do , and this has led to some hiccups. E.g. Not every ex-member is in the alumni team because some people just deleted themselves, some people were on highfive lists that they didn't know about. It would be nice if we could have a documented way for members to smoothly exit the project.

Val Grimm (Feb 27 2020 at 18:44, on Zulip):

Well, other than people removing their access to things (repos? Zulip? Discord groups? something else?) and them being added to alumni

Val Grimm (Feb 27 2020 at 18:44, on Zulip):

Do they need to write some kind of summary of what they were last working on or something?

BatmanAoD (Kyle Strand) (Feb 27 2020 at 18:46, on Zulip):

Val Grimm said:

Do they need to write some kind of summary of what they were last working on or something?

"need" might be a bit strong, given that people leave for reasons of stress and/or time constraints... but maybe "encourage"?

XAMPPRocky (Feb 27 2020 at 18:46, on Zulip):

@Val Grimm Well ideally they would just become alumni in rust-lang/team and then their access would change automatically.

XAMPPRocky (Feb 27 2020 at 18:47, on Zulip):

I don't think people need to write anything.

BatmanAoD (Kyle Strand) (Feb 27 2020 at 18:47, on Zulip):

It would also be good to track the "bus factor" for project members pre-emptively. E.g. ideally we wouldn't have anyone with unique access or knowledge

XAMPPRocky (Feb 27 2020 at 18:48, on Zulip):

It's more that I bet that a lot of people don't know how to partially or fully remove themselves from Rust project.

XAMPPRocky (Feb 27 2020 at 18:48, on Zulip):

Like I've talked to people who don't know they're on rust-lang/team for example.

Pietro Albini (Feb 27 2020 at 18:49, on Zulip):

Well ideally they would just become alumni in rust-lang/team and then their access would change automatically.

[not for infra btw, I'll probably write some notes down when we scale down the level of access alex has]

Val Grimm (Feb 27 2020 at 18:49, on Zulip):

Ok, so are we talking about an automated workflow they can trigger?

Val Grimm (Feb 27 2020 at 18:49, on Zulip):

which doesn't yet exist?

Val Grimm (Feb 27 2020 at 18:49, on Zulip):

or a checklst?

Val Grimm (Feb 27 2020 at 18:50, on Zulip):

or a checklist to turn into a workflow?

Pietro Albini (Feb 27 2020 at 18:50, on Zulip):

for most stuff removing them from the team repo does the trick

XAMPPRocky (Feb 27 2020 at 18:51, on Zulip):

@Val Grimm Yeah like a checklist/guide to "How do I become an Alumni?" on forge.

Pietro Albini (Feb 27 2020 at 18:51, on Zulip):

off the top of my head, I guess the things that are not automated yet outside of infra are:

Pietro Albini (Feb 27 2020 at 18:51, on Zulip):

if we consider infra... well... where do I start :sweat_smile:

nikomatsakis (Feb 27 2020 at 18:52, on Zulip):

XAMPPRocky said:

Val Grimm Yeah like a checklist/guide to "How do I become an Alumni?" on forge.

seems good to me

XAMPPRocky (Feb 27 2020 at 18:54, on Zulip):

if we consider infra... well... where do I start

Well maybe that's two seperate lists then? I'm assuming most teams/people won't ever have/need infra access.

Pietro Albini (Feb 27 2020 at 18:55, on Zulip):

well I'll have to write it eventually

Pietro Albini (Feb 27 2020 at 18:55, on Zulip):

we can just include it then

Val Grimm (Feb 27 2020 at 19:00, on Zulip):

ok, so, removal from the team repo, discord, zulip, highfive. addition to alumni. if possible, basic info capture for institutional memory, which we would need a template for to make it easier for folks. does this sound like the checklist?

Val Grimm (Feb 27 2020 at 19:00, on Zulip):

What am I missing>

Val Grimm (Feb 27 2020 at 19:00, on Zulip):

(this is for non-infra)

Val Grimm (Feb 27 2020 at 19:00, on Zulip):

Also, what sorts of info would one want to capture for institutional memory?

XAMPPRocky (Feb 27 2020 at 20:08, on Zulip):

@Val Grimm I don't know if you're offering to write the list, if you are, great. If not I can work on it next week.

Pietro Albini (Feb 27 2020 at 20:10, on Zulip):

there is already a page on the forge on this

Pietro Albini (Feb 27 2020 at 20:10, on Zulip):

that could get some love

XAMPPRocky (Feb 27 2020 at 20:10, on Zulip):

@Pietro Albini Yes, I think we're talking about adding this to forge.

Pietro Albini (Feb 27 2020 at 20:11, on Zulip):

I was talking about https://forge.rust-lang.org/infra/team-maintenance.html

Pietro Albini (Feb 27 2020 at 20:11, on Zulip):

it should probably be fixed

XAMPPRocky (Feb 27 2020 at 20:23, on Zulip):

Ah, nice. Yeah that's a good start.

Val Grimm (Feb 28 2020 at 09:12, on Zulip):

Hi, I think it is better if someone with more context works on this list, alternatively we could discuss async and I could do. @XAMPPRocky I'm not sure if I yet know all the stuff I need to do. Also thanks for the existing doc Pietro.

XAMPPRocky (Feb 28 2020 at 09:12, on Zulip):

@Val Grimm Okay, I’ll make a start on it next week.

Val Grimm (Feb 28 2020 at 09:13, on Zulip):

I'll read it when you are done, to learn. I need to do some more of that in general.

Val Grimm (Feb 28 2020 at 09:14, on Zulip):

Thank you @XAMPPRocky

XAMPPRocky (Feb 28 2020 at 13:27, on Zulip):

Yeah, maybe a bigger project would be to have kind of intro to contributing that's general to the Rust project to give better context. The current contributing documentation is focused around the main repos, but there's actually a lot of different groups who would love contributors.

Val Grimm (Feb 28 2020 at 13:28, on Zulip):

Hm. Sounds like that would be a situation calling for an interview of a rep from each group

Val Grimm (Feb 28 2020 at 13:28, on Zulip):

and then writing something up based on that

Val Grimm (Feb 28 2020 at 13:28, on Zulip):

possibly?

XAMPPRocky (Feb 28 2020 at 15:12, on Zulip):

Well I don't currently know what form that intro would look like. I was thinking of something aimed directly at contributors, one example that came to mind was http://www.sortingh.at which walks you through what tools and resources you can use for free to make your own game. I was maybe thinking something similar where someone could say their level technical expertise, what kinds of things they are interested and giving them a list places in the project they can contribute to.

I'm not entirely sure though.

nikomatsakis (Mar 03 2020 at 16:31, on Zulip):

@XAMPPRocky so I am planning to open a PR to move eddyb to "lang team alumni" (I've discussed with them, obviously).

nikomatsakis (Mar 03 2020 at 16:31, on Zulip):

I'm not sure if we've developed any conventions for that

nikomatsakis (Mar 03 2020 at 16:31, on Zulip):

They're still involved in compiler team and elsewhere

nikomatsakis (Mar 03 2020 at 16:32, on Zulip):

So I don't think I need to move them to the Alumni list

XAMPPRocky (Mar 03 2020 at 16:32, on Zulip):

Oh well we don’t think we handle that case at all

nikomatsakis (Mar 03 2020 at 16:32, on Zulip):

OK. I'll just put a nice note in the commit message for now.

XAMPPRocky (Mar 03 2020 at 16:32, on Zulip):

Alumni right now is completely left the project.

nikomatsakis (Mar 03 2020 at 16:32, on Zulip):

I feel like we want some kind of metadata about this

nikomatsakis (Mar 03 2020 at 16:33, on Zulip):

maybe overkill :)

nikomatsakis (Mar 03 2020 at 16:33, on Zulip):

if nothing else, it'd be just nice to have a list of alumni that is per-team

XAMPPRocky (Mar 03 2020 at 16:36, on Zulip):

Yeah I was thinking about what if in addition to leads and members, there’s an alumni list?

nikomatsakis (Mar 03 2020 at 16:37, on Zulip):

seems pretty reasonable

nikomatsakis (Mar 03 2020 at 16:37, on Zulip):

I think git commit messages suffices for more details, probably

nikomatsakis (Mar 03 2020 at 16:37, on Zulip):

(i.e., it'd be cool to be able to git-annotate why someone is there to get more notes)

XAMPPRocky (Mar 03 2020 at 16:46, on Zulip):

Well I think depending on the information ideally it would be a bit more visible. Ideally with alumni we would have a summary of their contributions for the website.

nikomatsakis (Mar 03 2020 at 16:56, on Zulip):

yeah, maybe, but it's definitely work and overhead to maintain these sorts of things

nikomatsakis (Mar 03 2020 at 16:56, on Zulip):

I agree it'd be nice though

simulacrum (Mar 03 2020 at 17:01, on Zulip):

I think maybe a good way there is to eventually support links (presumably to inside rust blog posts, where we thank people for their work)

Pietro Albini (Mar 03 2020 at 17:20, on Zulip):

@XAMPPRocky hmm, how would you include the summary of what someone did in the website without using too much space?

Pietro Albini (Mar 03 2020 at 17:20, on Zulip):

2020-03-03-18-19-36.png
btw I had an idea on how to include alumni in the teams (with dummy data of course)

XAMPPRocky (Mar 03 2020 at 17:39, on Zulip):

hmm, how would you include the summary of what someone did in the website without using too much space?

I'm not sure why it needs to be conservative with space specifically. I was thinking 2–4 sentences for each person.

XAMPPRocky (Mar 03 2020 at 17:40, on Zulip):

@simulacrum We'd have to start writing those posts first. :slight_smile:

Pietro Albini (Mar 03 2020 at 17:42, on Zulip):

@XAMPPRocky I feel like that would highlight too much past members compared to current members

Pietro Albini (Mar 03 2020 at 17:42, on Zulip):

I'd be fine doing that in a separate "alumni" page, but not in the various team pages

Pietro Albini (Mar 03 2020 at 17:43, on Zulip):

hmm, what do you think about having names like in my screenshot in each team page, pointing to an alumni page with those summaries for each person?

XAMPPRocky (Mar 03 2020 at 17:44, on Zulip):

I feel like giving everyone a page would be too much. I would think that our alumni page would also include team alumni.

Pietro Albini (Mar 03 2020 at 17:45, on Zulip):

oh, not a page for every single person, every person in a single page

XAMPPRocky (Mar 03 2020 at 17:51, on Zulip):

Oh , hmm. I'm not sure, that might be the opposite and be too big as just checking team, there's 270 people in the rust lang org.

Pietro Albini (Mar 03 2020 at 17:52, on Zulip):

hmm, let's maybe do a quick call to brainstorm some ideas?

XAMPPRocky (Mar 03 2020 at 17:55, on Zulip):

I can't do a call right now. I could have a call about it tomorrow afternoon?

Pietro Albini (Mar 03 2020 at 17:57, on Zulip):

that's not a problem, let me pm you on discord

Last update: Apr 03 2020 at 17:55UTC