Stream: project leads (public)

Topic: six years of Rust blog post


nikomatsakis (Apr 23 2021 at 13:58, on Zulip):

So @XAMPPRocky pointed out that it'll be Rust's sixth birthday soon and that it would be good to have a blog post. I really liked the 5 year post last year, but I guess we can't do exactly that again...

nikomatsakis (Apr 23 2021 at 13:59, on Zulip):

...there's been a lot of exciting stuff this year, notably the Foundation

nikomatsakis (Apr 23 2021 at 13:59, on Zulip):

things like the async vision doc

XAMPPRocky (Apr 23 2021 at 14:05, on Zulip):

Also looking back on the language side, we just landed min const generics and the new cargo resolver, both of which have been pretty long awaited features.

nikomatsakis (Apr 23 2021 at 14:06, on Zulip):

oh, duh, Rust 2021 =)

nikomatsakis (Apr 23 2021 at 14:06, on Zulip):

#t-compiler/wg-rfc-2229 work is probably worth mentioning, along with format!

nikomatsakis (Apr 23 2021 at 14:06, on Zulip):

(ergonomic wins for daily rust code)

Wesley Wiser (Apr 23 2021 at 14:19, on Zulip):

A few other things that might be worth calling out:

pnkfelix (Apr 23 2021 at 15:31, on Zulip):

Is the recent Rust in Linux Kernel thing worth mentioning? Or should we wait until it actually lands

Joshua Nelson (Apr 23 2021 at 15:38, on Zulip):

that should definitely be mentioned imo :)

Yuki Okushi (Apr 23 2021 at 15:54, on Zulip):

:+1: , Rust in Android too :)

nikomatsakis (Apr 24 2021 at 12:32, on Zulip):

yes!

nikomatsakis (Apr 24 2021 at 12:33, on Zulip):

(to all the above)

nikomatsakis (Apr 24 2021 at 12:33, on Zulip):

@Josh Triplett how much do you know about the rust in linux kernel stuff?

nikomatsakis (Apr 24 2021 at 12:33, on Zulip):

Also, @XAMPPRocky, are you thinking of trying to draft :) I think we should probably get somebody poking at this...

XAMPPRocky (Apr 24 2021 at 12:37, on Zulip):

I can try and write a draft over this week. I’ll share an outline here in a couple of days, and then flesh it out from there.

Josh Triplett (Apr 24 2021 at 15:05, on Zulip):

@nikomatsakis Quite a bit; I'm actively participating in the effort, and I'm the liaison to the Rust project.

Josh Triplett (Apr 24 2021 at 15:08, on Zulip):

I would suggest that in its current state, it should get a sentence at most, to avoid putting too much emphasis on it.

BatmanAoD (Kyle Strand) (Apr 24 2021 at 19:36, on Zulip):

At this point Rust is merely "under serious consideration for inclusion in the Linux kernel for some optional components", correct?

Julian-Wollersberger (Apr 24 2021 at 19:48, on Zulip):

Browsing through the top of the year reddit posts:

I've left out pictures and blog posts, and not all of the above would fit here, but this list reflects what people are excited about.

Josh Triplett (Apr 24 2021 at 23:14, on Zulip):

@BatmanAoD (Kyle Strand) Accurate.

nikomatsakis (Apr 26 2021 at 19:18, on Zulip):

There is also the work on memory safe curl, memory safe tls module for apache, and improvements to rustls that is being sponsored by ISRG -- I think there are other posts to link to in each case.

Josh Triplett (Apr 26 2021 at 19:45, on Zulip):

Side note, while it probably isn't suitable to be linked from the six-year blog post, https://daniel.haxx.se/blog/2021/04/23/please-select-your-tls/ is major news as well. Curl no longer has a "default" of OpenSSL; you now have to select your TLS backend explicitly.

Joshua Nelson (Apr 26 2021 at 19:45, on Zulip):

oh wow that is news

Florian Gilcher (Apr 28 2021 at 13:14, on Zulip):

Tooting my own horn, but ISO 26262 compliance by the end of 2022. https://ferrous-systems.com/ferrocene/

XAMPPRocky (Apr 28 2021 at 13:18, on Zulip):

@Florian Gilcher That's nice, because that's in the future, and that's where I'm lacking at the moment.

XAMPPRocky (Apr 28 2021 at 13:18, on Zulip):

Currently my thinking is these three sections mentioning each of these points.

Recent Additions:

Rust In Production:

Future Work:

Florian Gilcher (Apr 28 2021 at 13:19, on Zulip):

XAMPPRocky said:

Florian Gilcher That's nice, because that's in the future, and that's where I'm lacking at the moment.

uff, I'll see that i can dig up some things, but e.g. @pnkfelix turbowish also sounds like fitting in that area

XAMPPRocky (Apr 28 2021 at 13:19, on Zulip):

Good point, I was just reading the turbowish post last night. :smile:

BatmanAoD (Kyle Strand) (Apr 28 2021 at 13:54, on Zulip):

Linux kernel should probably also go there

matklad (Apr 28 2021 at 13:59, on Zulip):

Feels like the progress on IDE front have been pretty substantiation during the last year and a half, might be worth a mention to? :smile:

XAMPPRocky (Apr 28 2021 at 14:03, on Zulip):

@matklad Any article or issue/pr/discussion on GitHub I could reference specifically? I will admit to using Vim and not a lot of "IDE features".

matklad (Apr 28 2021 at 14:04, on Zulip):

https://github.com/rust-lang/rfcs/pull/2912 is probably the one

pnkfelix (Apr 28 2021 at 15:38, on Zulip):

XAMPPRocky said:

Good point, I was just reading the turbowish post last night. :smile:

posts (plural) now! :wink:

Josh Triplett (Apr 28 2021 at 16:08, on Zulip):

@XAMPPRocky When mentioning ARM64, you could also mention the new Target Tier Policy (https://doc.rust-lang.org/nightly/rustc/target-tier-policy.html).

Josh Triplett (Apr 28 2021 at 16:09, on Zulip):

Rust in the Linux kernel belongs in the "Future Work" section, I think.

nikomatsakis (Apr 28 2021 at 17:24, on Zulip):

@XAMPPRocky I think the fact that we have rust teams at microsoft, AWS, facebook is worthy of mention. We probably want to coordinate a bit with folks from those companies though. For AWS, I can safely say that we'd love to see this blog post cited. I'm not sure if there are good citations for other companies though.

nikomatsakis (Apr 28 2021 at 17:25, on Zulip):

we could at least find things to link to though

nikomatsakis (Apr 28 2021 at 17:26, on Zulip):

might be good to include under or around Foundation, especially with the Foundation's stated aim of encouraging companies to hire people to work on Rust

Josh Triplett (Apr 28 2021 at 17:29, on Zulip):

@XAMPPRocky I do think cg_clif is worth citing, both as a recent addition and as future work.

Josh Triplett (Apr 28 2021 at 17:30, on Zulip):

@XAMPPRocky And Ralf's thesis work on formalizing Rust is absolutely worth citing, both because of the benefits of that formalization and to encourage the many many researchers in academia and industry who will follow.

Josh Triplett (Apr 28 2021 at 17:31, on Zulip):

The rustls audit as well.

Josh Triplett (Apr 28 2021 at 17:31, on Zulip):

(Mentioning those because they weren't in the bullet-point outline.)

nikomatsakis (Apr 28 2021 at 18:14, on Zulip):

Josh Triplett said:

XAMPPRocky And Ralf's thesis work on formalizing Rust is absolutely worth citing, both because of the benefits of that formalization and to encourage the many many researchers in academia and industry who will follow.

nice

Florian Gilcher (Apr 28 2021 at 18:16, on Zulip):

I mean, a section just on _ongoing_ things in academic spaces might be of interest

Florian Gilcher (Apr 28 2021 at 18:17, on Zulip):

https://github.com/xldenis/creusot and things like prusti and such would be interesting

XAMPPRocky (May 04 2021 at 16:40, on Zulip):

As an update, I'm about half way through a draft and hope to have it sharable by the end of the week.

Florian Gilcher (May 04 2021 at 16:43, on Zulip):

@XAMPPRocky online conferences! RustConf and RustFest Global!

Florian Gilcher (May 04 2021 at 16:44, on Zulip):

And the online meetups like London, Tokyo and Berlin (maybe someone has some other ones out of my cone of influence?

Josh Triplett (May 04 2021 at 16:44, on Zulip):

@XAMPPRocky Would you have any objection if I poked a couple of large Rust teams I know to see if they have suggestions for major milestones in the last year?

XAMPPRocky (May 04 2021 at 16:45, on Zulip):

@Josh Triplett Absolutely not, go ahead. :smile:

Josh Triplett (May 04 2021 at 16:49, on Zulip):

@XAMPPRocky Also, while it isn't in upstream Rust yet, I think it'd be worth highlighting rust-gpu, as an example of "Rust going to new places". The ability to write graphics shaders in Rust, being actively used in production, seems rather incredible.

Josh Triplett (May 04 2021 at 16:55, on Zulip):

@XAMPPRocky Slight self-promotion here, but I think the target tier policy is worth highlighting, as a roadmap and invitation for future targets.

Josh Triplett (May 04 2021 at 16:55, on Zulip):

(Oh, sorry, I already mentioned that above. Long-running thread. :) )

Josh Triplett (May 04 2021 at 16:58, on Zulip):

Regarding rust-gpu, the original announcement was at https://github.com/EmbarkStudios/rust-gpu/releases/tag/v0.1 , and the news post at https://mailchi.mp/embark-studios/dev009 mentions "100% of our shaders now implemented in Rust".

XAMPPRocky (May 04 2021 at 17:01, on Zulip):

Josh Triplett said:

Regarding rust-gpu, the original announcement was at https://github.com/EmbarkStudios/rust-gpu/releases/tag/v0.1 , and the news post at https://mailchi.mp/embark-studios/dev009 mentions "100% of our shaders now implemented in Rust".

Heh, yes I thought about that, however it initially felt unfair to include since I worked on the project. :sweat_smile:

Josh Triplett (May 04 2021 at 17:03, on Zulip):

Well, I didn't work on it, and I think you should include it. ;)

Florian Gilcher (May 04 2021 at 17:04, on Zulip):

XAMPPRocky said:

Josh Triplett said:

Regarding rust-gpu, the original announcement was at https://github.com/EmbarkStudios/rust-gpu/releases/tag/v0.1 , and the news post at https://mailchi.mp/embark-studios/dev009 mentions "100% of our shaders now implemented in Rust".

Heh, yes I thought about that, however it initially felt unfair to include since I worked on the project. :sweat_smile:

don't. it's notable work and you are _also_ doing the work of writing the blog post.

Josh Triplett (May 04 2021 at 17:06, on Zulip):

In general, if there's work you think is awesome and you're also working on it, you could just post about it here and get confirmation from others. We're all likely to say "yes, go for it!". :)

pnkfelix (May 04 2021 at 21:15, on Zulip):

@XAMPPRocky if you don’t feel comfortable writing the text about rust-gpu because you think it may be too self-promotional, I imagine someone here would be willing to take a swing at that section of the post.

XAMPPRocky (May 10 2021 at 06:29, on Zulip):

Finished the draft, I haven’t gone through and added all the links and other bits of polish, but the content is there. Feel free to edit. https://hackmd.io/@XAMPPRocky/ByB3eLLuu

XAMPPRocky (May 10 2021 at 06:30, on Zulip):

If it all looks good by then I’ll make a PR to the blog on Wednesday or Thursday.

lcnr (May 11 2021 at 11:03, on Zulip):

afaik we're stabilizing or patterns in all editions, and only the way macros behave changes in the 2021 edition

lcnr (May 11 2021 at 11:05, on Zulip):

the one issue i found in the post was that it currently seems like or patterns will be added as part of the 2021 edition which isn't true, though I am not too sure how to best rewrite it to reflect this.

XAMPPRocky (May 11 2021 at 11:06, on Zulip):

@lcnr Ah, I haven't been keeping super close, I would have thought :pat2021 would have meant this feature was a 2021 feature. (though I should have known, because it's stabilised in 1.53)

Is there another big feature of the edition that you think would be worth highlighting in its place? I don't think just the macro pattern change is noteworthy.

lcnr (May 11 2021 at 11:08, on Zulip):

currently looking at https://github.com/rust-lang/blog.rust-lang.org/compare/master...m-ou-se:plan-2021 to see if there's any other large change

XAMPPRocky (May 11 2021 at 11:10, on Zulip):

@lcnr Oh well if that post is going to be published today, I think I'll cut that section shorter, and link to that. As it was originally written assuming that post would land after.

lcnr (May 11 2021 at 11:10, on Zulip):

I am really happy about Box<Trait> being a hard error instead of a warning as it should allow us to improve some errors, but I feel that this not really that generally interesting

XAMPPRocky (May 12 2021 at 15:36, on Zulip):

Posted the PR. https://github.com/rust-lang/blog.rust-lang.org/pull/837

Last update: Jun 20 2021 at 01:30UTC