Stream: rust-survey-2019

Topic: closing the survey


nikomatsakis (Dec 16 2019 at 16:53, on Zulip):

So it seems like it's time to close the survey(s) to new responses...

nikomatsakis (Dec 16 2019 at 16:54, on Zulip):

I was wondering if we did a blog post last year to announce the survey's closing, but I guess not

apiraino (Dec 16 2019 at 16:56, on Zulip):

That's right. As far as I can see, last year there was:

Jasun Carr (Dec 16 2019 at 17:07, on Zulip):

There are still a few responses trickling in this morning - should we leave it until EoD today?

Josh Triplett (Dec 16 2019 at 17:08, on Zulip):

Did we give a date for the end of the survey?

Jasun Carr (Dec 16 2019 at 17:13, on Zulip):

"Our survey will run to December 16th, 2019."

XAMPPRocky (Dec 16 2019 at 17:39, on Zulip):

@Jasun Carr Aside from providing the translated answers, is there anything else that you need/want us to do?

Josh Triplett (Dec 16 2019 at 19:42, on Zulip):

@Jasun Carr I think that it'd make sense to close it at midnight AOE, then. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anywhere_on_Earth)

Santiago Pastorino (Dec 16 2019 at 19:42, on Zulip):

@Jasun Carr btw, you pinged me about the translations earlier, were you going to contact translators or should I do that?

Jasun Carr (Dec 16 2019 at 20:09, on Zulip):

@Santiago Pastorino As you've had more direct contact with them, would you mind doing so?
@XAMPPRocky Right now I don't think so... I had a chat with @nikomatsakis earlier re: questions/analysis to focus on, so I think we've got a game plan. As I work through that, and as time allows, I'll reach out for additional ideas/questions if needed

Santiago Pastorino (Dec 16 2019 at 20:41, on Zulip):

yes, I can do that, the best would probably be to start tomorrow I guess

Santiago Pastorino (Dec 16 2019 at 20:41, on Zulip):

I meant, as soon as possible but after the survey closes

Xidorn Quan (Dec 17 2019 at 07:46, on Zulip):

I just closed the Chinese survey. Will probably send the translated result this weekend.

Xidorn Quan (Dec 17 2019 at 07:47, on Zulip):

I mean the Simplified Chinese one. We end up having 430 answers.

apiraino (Dec 17 2019 at 08:53, on Zulip):

I only have 25 answers in Italian, not much work, I guess. I'll take care of them on the weekend

apiraino (Dec 17 2019 at 08:58, on Zulip):

@Jasun Carr do you prefer all translated answers in some common file format (say, a CSV)? I think I'll prepare a new CSV starting from the source language file (Italian, in my case) that google exports and rewrite the free text in English.
So I can deliver the same file format as the "master" English one.
Makes sense?

Jasun Carr (Dec 17 2019 at 09:35, on Zulip):

That makes sense - csv or xlsx are perfect.

Xidorn Quan (Dec 17 2019 at 10:04, on Zulip):

if we need all free text to be translated, that probably needs quite a bit of work for simplified chinese. what would be the most helpful way? maybe I can read through and count how frequently certain stuff shows up? I probably still need to ask several people to help.

apiraino (Dec 17 2019 at 10:32, on Zulip):

yes, @Xidorn Quan in your case my method does not scale well :-)
I think your idea makes sense, if you have enough eyes on the source CSV file.
Would it be feasable to replace the Chinese answers with an English bullet point list of concepts? At least to be able to replace with a copy and paste recurring thoughts (like "improve IDE integration" or "more documentation").

apiraino (Dec 17 2019 at 10:32, on Zulip):

Or else (random idea): what kind of quality would you get from a massive google-translated content? In the end we need to grasp the concepts, I think the quality of English is not fundamental here.

Xidorn Quan (Dec 17 2019 at 10:33, on Zulip):

I think last year @Manish Goregaokar does the massive google translate thing, and I'm not sure how good that was. (I didn't do free text translation last year)

XAMPPRocky (Dec 17 2019 at 12:58, on Zulip):

@Xidorn Quan I'm not sure if this would be more work or not than other suggestions, but you could mass google translate the answers, and then compare if it the text matches the intent of the original and only change the erroneous cases.

nikomatsakis (Dec 17 2019 at 14:04, on Zulip):

I guess I would let @Jasun Carr answer, but I suspect google translate is "reasonable", especially to start

Jasun Carr (Dec 17 2019 at 15:31, on Zulip):

Yes, Google translate is fine as long as someone with subject knowledge can cross-check for mistranslation or change in intent. (I'd probably catch something like "box" in place of "crate", but I'd miss other things)

Santiago Pastorino (Dec 17 2019 at 21:24, on Zulip):

@Jasun Carr I've asked translators about translating answers

Santiago Pastorino (Dec 17 2019 at 21:24, on Zulip):

is there a deadline or something?

Santiago Pastorino (Dec 17 2019 at 21:24, on Zulip):

some people already asked that

Jasun Carr (Dec 17 2019 at 21:37, on Zulip):

If they can have it done around the first week of January that would be great.

DH (Dec 20 2019 at 01:15, on Zulip):

I think the actual content requiring translation is the text area answers. But if it's helpful that @Jasun Carr works w/ CSV files that are all English to the point where all questions and bullet points are exactly same as those in the original survey, then someone needs to do some chores.

So I wonder how we process non text area answers.

DH (Dec 20 2019 at 01:19, on Zulip):

In the case of Korean translation, I kept the order of sections, questions, and bullet points all the same as the original English copy. So doing the forementioned processing on Google exported CSV files should be able to be automated.

DH (Dec 20 2019 at 01:53, on Zulip):

So to sum up, I think:

  1. We need to settle on the exact format of what @Jasun Carr will get to go on.
    * Otherwise someone needs to do additional processing afterward.
    * My understanding so far reading the discussions above is we prefer the CSV format exported by Google Forms, where all sentences are mapped back (for possible automated processing by @Jasun Carr?) to those original survey in the case of bullet points and text area answers are translated to English.

  2. Maybe it's better to give codes to sections, questions, and bullet points, if they are anyway to be processed with tools.
    * Translators can find and replace them in the exported CSV files, and I think it may be slightly easier for translators than mapping back to the counter part in the original English copy of the survey.
    * Depending on how @Jasun Carr gonna process the CSV files, codes may be better to work with than English sentences (here I'm applying the same reasoning as why we avoid use of magic numbers in our codes).

DH (Dec 20 2019 at 01:59, on Zulip):

So though I told @Santiago Pastorino that I'll prepare a separate text file for text area answers during our email exchanges, I'll turn to the CSV file.

Jasun Carr (Dec 20 2019 at 13:33, on Zulip):

As long as the non-text areas are either what the survey spits out or are the same as the English language options it will be fine. I'll be running a bulk set of "find/replace" on the combined sheet using the questions from the surveys.

Jasun Carr (Dec 20 2019 at 13:35, on Zulip):

If the text answers are in a separate file, please be sure they are in the same order as the spreadsheet so we can match answers to responses (probably not necessary to say).

apiraino (Dec 22 2019 at 10:48, on Zulip):

(deleted)

apiraino (Dec 22 2019 at 10:51, on Zulip):

@Jasun Carr I had a look at the surveys, they look like they're still accepting responses. Are we still open to gathering feedbacks?

apiraino (Dec 22 2019 at 12:53, on Zulip):

Also, who is collecting (and how) the translated CSV? I've translated the free-form answers of the Italian survey and did not touch the fixed form ones (multiple choice or single choice).
In case, I can search/replace with some English there, too

XAMPPRocky (Dec 22 2019 at 13:50, on Zulip):

@apiraino No, someone should have closed them. I've closed all of the surveys now.

nikomatsakis (Dec 23 2019 at 12:26, on Zulip):

No, someone should have closed them. I've closed all of the surveys now.

thanks

apiraino (Jan 09 2020 at 10:57, on Zulip):

Hi all, just out of curiosity, what's the current status of translations? Perhaps a little recap to get everyone on the same page
(cc @Santiago Pastorino and @Jasun Carr)

Jasun Carr (Jan 09 2020 at 13:48, on Zulip):

I had to resort to Google translate for a couple of the languages due to translators being unavailable, but all surveys are now done. I've made notes for each on the Translation Status doc in the Google drive folder.

apiraino (Jan 09 2020 at 13:53, on Zulip):

Wow, great news!

DH (Jan 13 2020 at 03:29, on Zulip):

I had to resort to Google translate for a couple of the languages due to translators being unavailable, but all surveys are now done. I've made notes for each on the Translation Status doc in the Google drive folder.

In case you need any assist regarding Korean translation, feel free to ping me. Google translate is generally great and getting better, but I (as a Korean) still can't be sure it emits right translations most of the time. ;)

Jasun Carr (Jan 15 2020 at 02:36, on Zulip):

Thanks, and I will. The syntax is pretty horrible from what is spit out, but I was able to parse/auto-fix it (things like "Not" instead of "No" and the like)

Last update: Apr 05 2020 at 00:45UTC