Stream: t-compiler/wg-polonius

Topic: meeting 2019.07.02


lqd (Jul 02 2019 at 19:00, on Zulip):

hello friends from @WG-polonius :)

Albin Stjerna (Jul 02 2019 at 19:01, on Zulip):

Hi!

Albin Stjerna (Jul 02 2019 at 19:01, on Zulip):

I’m sort of here, but err on my phone

lqd (Jul 02 2019 at 19:01, on Zulip):

how is everybody ?

lqd (Jul 02 2019 at 19:01, on Zulip):

the usual WIP roadmap

lqd (Jul 02 2019 at 19:02, on Zulip):

hopefully everyone had a pleasant week

lqd (Jul 02 2019 at 19:02, on Zulip):

I saw Niko and Albin got the rustc PR done :tada: (minus some details around rebasing etc)

Albin Stjerna (Jul 02 2019 at 19:03, on Zulip):

Yes! Everything seems to be working finally, knock on wood

lqd (Jul 02 2019 at 19:03, on Zulip):

(@lokalmatador won't be with us tonight btw — they can keep us updated whenever they have the time to do so :)

lqd (Jul 02 2019 at 19:04, on Zulip):

the rustc PR can probably be dealt with soon

nikomatsakis (Jul 02 2019 at 19:04, on Zulip):

great! btw, I will be on vacation starting July 15 until mid-August

nikomatsakis (Jul 02 2019 at 19:04, on Zulip):

I may or may not be online in that time :)

nikomatsakis (Jul 02 2019 at 19:04, on Zulip):

Not very much

lqd (Jul 02 2019 at 19:04, on Zulip):

@Matthew Jasper do you feel you could review the final additions on it btw or would you prefer niko to do it ? (also if you have the time ofc)

nikomatsakis (Jul 02 2019 at 19:04, on Zulip):

(We should definitely try to get those PRs merged before I go)

lqd (Jul 02 2019 at 19:05, on Zulip):

shaking my head at the lack of greek flag emoji

lqd (Jul 02 2019 at 19:05, on Zulip):

I myself, thanks to Matthew, have been able to make some more progress on the rust test suite

Albin Stjerna (Jul 02 2019 at 19:06, on Zulip):

Hm, do we think there’s any chance to have any of the other parts of initialisation done before 15th?

lqd (Jul 02 2019 at 19:06, on Zulip):

it's I think almost ready for you to take a look Niko if you have some time (which I doubt)

lqd (Jul 02 2019 at 19:07, on Zulip):

sounds plausible to me

lqd (Jul 02 2019 at 19:07, on Zulip):

what would you need Albin, some mentoring guidance probably ?

Albin Stjerna (Jul 02 2019 at 19:07, on Zulip):

Probably, but I have some ideas for what to do.

Albin Stjerna (Jul 02 2019 at 19:08, on Zulip):

And I think I could sort of experiment my way if I had to

Albin Stjerna (Jul 02 2019 at 19:08, on Zulip):

I’m just worried I won’t have enough actual things in my master’s thesis, but I guess I can fill it up with studies of input data, some type system stuff and so on

Albin Stjerna (Jul 02 2019 at 19:09, on Zulip):

It doesn’t have to be good anymore, it just has to pass review :)

lqd (Jul 02 2019 at 19:09, on Zulip):

we can all try to pitch in to get that done

Albin Stjerna (Jul 02 2019 at 19:09, on Zulip):

Thanks :)

lqd (Jul 02 2019 at 19:10, on Zulip):

I was wondering about how to improve our coverage, like the smoke tests

lqd (Jul 02 2019 at 19:10, on Zulip):

and also fact generation itself

Albin Stjerna (Jul 02 2019 at 19:10, on Zulip):

But actually a hard deadline for features on July 15th thereabouts sounds good because then I have the rest of July to work on the report and August off

Albin Stjerna (Jul 02 2019 at 19:10, on Zulip):

Do we even have a way to measure test coverage?

lqd (Jul 02 2019 at 19:11, on Zulip):

what kind of a plan we could have in order to improve correctness from the rustc angle of the polonius integration

lqd (Jul 02 2019 at 19:11, on Zulip):

in general somewhat, but maybe not in this particular instance

lqd (Jul 02 2019 at 19:11, on Zulip):

esp talking about the coverage of fact generation of existing rust code for example

lqd (Jul 02 2019 at 19:12, on Zulip):

which sounds harder to automate than just coverage instrumentation :)

Albin Stjerna (Jul 02 2019 at 19:12, on Zulip):

Definitely, in particular given how spread out the fact generation code is

lqd (Jul 02 2019 at 19:13, on Zulip):

Matthew knows more about the problems and missing features there but there are definitely things to improve

lqd (Jul 02 2019 at 19:13, on Zulip):

but some of the test failures we see are very likely caused by these bugs/missing features there

lqd (Jul 02 2019 at 19:14, on Zulip):

so this is what I'll try to focus some of my time this week, even though I'm not exactly sure how, yet

lqd (Jul 02 2019 at 19:15, on Zulip):

and we'll try to get Albin set up for initialization as well :)

nikomatsakis (Jul 02 2019 at 19:15, on Zulip):

I’m just worried I won’t have enough actual things in my master’s thesis, but I guess I can fill it up with studies of input data, some type system stuff and so on

I can certainly try to lay out concrete plans

nikomatsakis (Jul 02 2019 at 19:16, on Zulip):

but I do wonder if the other material cited here might be more realistic

nikomatsakis (Jul 02 2019 at 19:16, on Zulip):

it's an extra busy time for me over next week or two :)

nikomatsakis (Jul 02 2019 at 19:16, on Zulip):

but it'd be good to do that work anyway

nikomatsakis (Jul 02 2019 at 19:16, on Zulip):

have you talked to Tobias re: what is "sufficient" for the thesis?

Albin Stjerna (Jul 02 2019 at 19:16, on Zulip):

No, but I should

nikomatsakis (Jul 02 2019 at 19:16, on Zulip):

I was kind of assuming the thesis would focus on the liveness work

nikomatsakis (Jul 02 2019 at 19:17, on Zulip):

but I agree that if we could get initialization done that'd be awesome

Albin Stjerna (Jul 02 2019 at 19:17, on Zulip):

I tried in a roundabout way, but he sort of dodged the question

Albin Stjerna (Jul 02 2019 at 19:17, on Zulip):

So I’ll try asking directly

lqd (Jul 02 2019 at 19:17, on Zulip):

did it go something like that: "you should do all of the things Albin" — Tobias, 2019

Albin Stjerna (Jul 02 2019 at 19:19, on Zulip):

Actually, it went something like “Niko suggested we crop the scope of the project to just the initialization in order to finish in time, would that be too little?” “Ok.”

lqd (Jul 02 2019 at 19:20, on Zulip):

since it's going to be a busy time @nikomatsakis who do you think could help here ? if it's generally about the existing initialization, Felix, Eddy and Matthew would probably know a lot more than us

nikomatsakis (Jul 02 2019 at 19:20, on Zulip):

Seems likely

nikomatsakis (Jul 02 2019 at 19:20, on Zulip):

I'm trying to remember how much we covered in the video chats thus far

lqd (Jul 02 2019 at 19:21, on Zulip):

this one for those following at home

nikomatsakis (Jul 02 2019 at 19:21, on Zulip):

well I could certainly try to sketch out a plan in a polonius issue and I'm sure @Matthew Jasper can point out all the things I've overlooked =)

Albin Stjerna (Jul 02 2019 at 19:21, on Zulip):

But I’ll ask a more direct question and see what happens. Worst case I’ll just do all the things and delay starting my PhD, I have money for food and rent until December or so and my future supervisor didn’t bat an eye when I asked him about it so that part is already taken care of.

nikomatsakis (Jul 02 2019 at 19:21, on Zulip):

and yes @pnkfelix also did a lot of this work

nikomatsakis (Jul 02 2019 at 19:22, on Zulip):

oh man I don't want to be responsible for @Albin Stjerna eating ramen for a month :P

Albin Stjerna (Jul 02 2019 at 19:22, on Zulip):

Excellent then we have plans a-z

Albin Stjerna (Jul 02 2019 at 19:22, on Zulip):

Ramen is for newbs, oatmeal’s much cheaper and more nutritious

lqd (Jul 02 2019 at 19:23, on Zulip):

well I could certainly try to sketch out a plan in a polonius issue and I'm sure Matthew Jasper can point out all the things I've overlooked =)

that would be awesome from the both of you

nikomatsakis (Jul 02 2019 at 19:25, on Zulip):

so sorry I got confused but

nikomatsakis (Jul 02 2019 at 19:25, on Zulip):

what is ready for me to review :)

lqd (Jul 02 2019 at 19:25, on Zulip):

almost ready

lqd (Jul 02 2019 at 19:25, on Zulip):

#60266

lqd (Jul 02 2019 at 19:25, on Zulip):

that is, ready apart from rebasing, despite the name and tag

lqd (Jul 02 2019 at 19:25, on Zulip):

(IIUC)

lqd (Jul 02 2019 at 19:26, on Zulip):

but, requires another small polonius PR

lqd (Jul 02 2019 at 19:26, on Zulip):

so these 2 things should be done like, soon

Albin Stjerna (Jul 02 2019 at 19:26, on Zulip):

Yes, and I err forgot to open it

lqd (Jul 02 2019 at 19:27, on Zulip):

being correct wrt to region_live_at requires both a small polonius PR, + release, and the rustc PR requires a rebase and dependency update to get the polonius PR

nikomatsakis (Jul 02 2019 at 19:28, on Zulip):

OK

nikomatsakis (Jul 02 2019 at 19:28, on Zulip):

yep, sounds right

nikomatsakis (Jul 02 2019 at 19:28, on Zulip):

exciting though!

Albin Stjerna (Jul 02 2019 at 19:28, on Zulip):

YES

lqd (Jul 02 2019 at 19:28, on Zulip):

so the plan this week looks like:
- Albin: opens the small polonius PR, later rebases and updates the rustc PR
- Niko: releases another polonius rev, maybe review the rustc PR (or Matthew) if any of the two have the time to do so
- Niko: if they have time, describe a bit about initialization, and we'll get help from Felix and/or Matthew if they all have time
- me: continue in some fashion on correctness
- me: post the dang meeting notes PRs

lqd (Jul 02 2019 at 19:29, on Zulip):

(deleted)

lqd (Jul 02 2019 at 19:29, on Zulip):

(deleted)

nikomatsakis (Jul 02 2019 at 19:30, on Zulip):

question 1:

nikomatsakis (Jul 02 2019 at 19:30, on Zulip):

oops, sorry, wrong channel :)

lqd (Jul 02 2019 at 19:31, on Zulip):

does anyone have anything else they wanted to talk about ?

Albin Stjerna (Jul 02 2019 at 19:32, on Zulip):

No, all done!

lqd (Jul 02 2019 at 19:32, on Zulip):

alright, then thanks a lot for your time everybody; enjoy the afternoon/evening :) :wave:

Robert Jacobson (Jul 02 2019 at 20:27, on Zulip):

Sorry I couldn't sit in on this one, but @Albin Stjerna I offer you my services as a rubber duck literally any time. :) One of the best ways to learn something is to teach it. In fact, I am going to try to do some writing/blogging about Polonius to get my head into the source code. When I have something interesting, maybe I'll try to convince one of you to read it (or skim it). Cheers!

Albin Stjerna (Jul 03 2019 at 06:07, on Zulip):

@Robert Jacobson thank you, and I’d be happy to read your things :)

Last update: Nov 15 2019 at 20:00UTC