Stream: t-compiler/wg-meta

Topic: meeting 2019.03.07


nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:00, on Zulip):

Hey @WG-compiler-meta, shall we sync up a bit?

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:00, on Zulip):

BTW, I'd like to propose some general structure for this meeting (and one that I'm trying to move towards generally)

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:01, on Zulip):

basically I think we should have a paper doc where we note the "action items" from the previous meeting, and we can briefly follow-up on them, and then (if needed) craft new ones for next time?

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:01, on Zulip):

this is a bit different from how we've used said paper docs in the past

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:01, on Zulip):

i.e., not so much "everybody say what they did", but more like "everybody say if they did the thing and have an idea for what to do next" :)

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:02, on Zulip):

(I'm mostly imagining paper doc because it's so easy to edit, doesn't have to be that)

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:02, on Zulip):

here is a link to a paper document

davidtwco (Mar 07 2019 at 19:02, on Zulip):

I could see that working.

Santiago Pastorino (Mar 07 2019 at 19:03, on Zulip):

in general I like Trello a lot :)

Santiago Pastorino (Mar 07 2019 at 19:03, on Zulip):

there are other tools like that

davidtwco (Mar 07 2019 at 19:03, on Zulip):

I think Paper is sufficient.

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:03, on Zulip):

I think more generally i'd like to have a setup where each person in the WG has a "theme"

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:03, on Zulip):

and they are kind of guiding it forward

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:04, on Zulip):

maybe not each person

davidtwco (Mar 07 2019 at 19:04, on Zulip):

Everyone is already using it.

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:04, on Zulip):

maybe more like: as a WG we pick some themes

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:04, on Zulip):

basically goals

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:04, on Zulip):

perhaps aligned to the 6-week release cycle, if we wanted to do something more "sprint-like"

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:05, on Zulip):

As far as Trello goes, like @davidtwco I'm inclined to try not to mess so much with new tools just yet

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:05, on Zulip):

though I am open at some point to finding better ones

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:05, on Zulip):

anyway, this is what we had from last time (I put it in the paper)

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:05, on Zulip):

[ ] Santiago Pastorino to handle the expert's list.
[ ] davidtwco to handle writing up whatever policies he can think of.
[ ] nikomatsakis to work on initial group of journeypeople and then all of us (we should make a shared document for this) to come up with the unresolved questions that we want to pose to the compiler team about journeypeople?

davidtwco (Mar 07 2019 at 19:05, on Zulip):

I think it makes sense, just like do everywhere else with bugs, to assign someone to tasks/themes and have that person follow through with what's required for it.

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:05, on Zulip):

right -- it's just lower overhead than creating GH issues

davidtwco (Mar 07 2019 at 19:05, on Zulip):

Yeah.

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:06, on Zulip):

I guess something we could do now is try to pick the specific goals, it seems to me we implicitly have a few in mind

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:06, on Zulip):

e.g., "finalize crate policy", "put in place a journeyperson role", "establish expert list"

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:06, on Zulip):

maybe we should just take those as our first 3 goals :)

davidtwco (Mar 07 2019 at 19:07, on Zulip):

There are a few obvious priorities from our ideas list based on what other working groups need and what we've been discussing.

Santiago Pastorino (Mar 07 2019 at 19:07, on Zulip):

maybe we should just take those as our first 3 goals :)

yes, I think this is fine

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:07, on Zulip):

yeah, I was thinking it'd be useful to turn those into "future goals"

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:07, on Zulip):

though i'm open to reordering

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:07, on Zulip):

I suppose a goal could be to fill out the goals list :)

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:07, on Zulip):

specifically, I think that the "crate policy" is .. reasonably close to done, at least as done as we can make it

davidtwco (Mar 07 2019 at 19:08, on Zulip):

I think so, we can always make changes after it lands.

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:08, on Zulip):

specifically, I think that the "crate policy" is .. reasonably close to done, at least as done as we can make it

actually, that's not quite true

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:08, on Zulip):

I think the main thing missing is trying to integrate bug tracking across crates into our triage process

davidtwco (Mar 07 2019 at 19:08, on Zulip):

There's still the fleshing out of how to propose out-of-tree crates that came out of the weekly meeting to add.

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:09, on Zulip):

yes

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:10, on Zulip):

so maybe those are 2 good goals for this week?

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:10, on Zulip):
nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:10, on Zulip):

the latter is probably pretty easy :)

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:10, on Zulip):

I think it's probabyl just extending our labeling scheme to search across the whole rust-lang org

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:10, on Zulip):

but also maybe editing the recommendations to suggest creating the relevant labels

davidtwco (Mar 07 2019 at 19:10, on Zulip):

I'm also interested in what we can do to help get all the working groups up and running and making progress. Diagnostics and MIR Opt are the only two w/out a page in the repo. But there's probably more we can do to try and ensure the groups are successful.

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:11, on Zulip):

I'm also interested in what we can do to help get all the working groups up and running and making progress. Diagnostics and MIR Opt are the only two w/out a page in the repo. But there's probably more we can do to try and ensure the groups are successful.

yes, very much this

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:11, on Zulip):

let's return to that theme

davidtwco (Mar 07 2019 at 19:11, on Zulip):

I can add those to the policy pretty quickly, I wouldn't make it a big goal for the week, just finishing off last week's goals.

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:11, on Zulip):

maybe at N:20 (where N is current hour in your time zone)

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:11, on Zulip):

I have thoughts but I'd like to look at the other goals first

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:11, on Zulip):

I can add those to the policy pretty quickly, I wouldn't make it a big goal for the week, just finishing off last week's goals.

let's list it, it's just a "small goal" :)

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:12, on Zulip):

so onto the Expert Map

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:12, on Zulip):

@Santiago Pastorino got the ball rolling, what is next step? I haven't looked at it recently

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:13, on Zulip):

it seems like maybe we just want to add it to the repo?

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:13, on Zulip):

or maybe it should live forever in a hackmd

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:13, on Zulip):

so that it is readily altered?

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:13, on Zulip):

but we should link to it

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:13, on Zulip):

we probably want to figure out where to talk about it so that it is useful

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:13, on Zulip):

e.g., maybe we want to reference it in the rustc-guide as part of the "contributing to rust" thing?

davidtwco (Mar 07 2019 at 19:14, on Zulip):

so that it is readily altered?

I reckon it'll end up being edited somewhat infrequently, but I'm not sure it is at that point yet.

Santiago Pastorino (Mar 07 2019 at 19:14, on Zulip):

maybe we should just add that to the repo

Santiago Pastorino (Mar 07 2019 at 19:14, on Zulip):

yeah

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:14, on Zulip):

I propose we do this

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:14, on Zulip):

make a page on the compiler-team repo

Santiago Pastorino (Mar 07 2019 at 19:14, on Zulip):

so that it is readily altered?

I reckon it'll end up being edited somewhat infrequently, but I'm not sure it is at that point yet.

yeah it won't be edited that much

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:15, on Zulip):

that currently contains a "redirect" to hackmd

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:15, on Zulip):

something like this:

While we toy with its structure, the expert map lives in this hackmd document

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:15, on Zulip):

then we can link to the repo :)

Santiago Pastorino (Mar 07 2019 at 19:15, on Zulip):

that currently contains a "redirect" to hackmd

seems pragmatic :)

davidtwco (Mar 07 2019 at 19:15, on Zulip):

That sounds good to me.

Santiago Pastorino (Mar 07 2019 at 19:15, on Zulip):

good to me too

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:15, on Zulip):

ok so

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:16, on Zulip):

re: the journeyperson role:

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:16, on Zulip):

(we're done with expert map, right?)

davidtwco (Mar 07 2019 at 19:16, on Zulip):

I think so, I assume @Santiago Pastorino will continue to lead work on it?

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:17, on Zulip):

I drew up an initial list of suggested names (both of you are on it ;) and sent mail to compiler-team mailing list. So far no objections. ;) I gave people a bit of time to respond but I don't anticipate any objections. @Santiago Pastorino took notes on what we said last time. I think maybe a good next step is to try and create a more specific "proposal". It might be good for me to do that (as a member of the compiler team)

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:17, on Zulip):

I think so, I assume Santiago Pastorino will continue to lead work on it?

this was my assumption :)

Santiago Pastorino (Mar 07 2019 at 19:18, on Zulip):

I think so, I assume Santiago Pastorino will continue to lead work on it?

talking about expert map?, yeah I can follow with this plan

davidtwco (Mar 07 2019 at 19:19, on Zulip):

I think maybe a good next step is to try and create a more specific "proposal". It might be good for me to do that (as a member of the compiler team)

That makes sense.

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:20, on Zulip):

OK

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:20, on Zulip):

Oh, could one of you add a link to the dropbox paper into the compiler team repository?

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:20, on Zulip):

that is, in the working-groups/meta/README.md or something

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:21, on Zulip):

I'm also interested in what we can do to help get all the working groups up and running and making progress. Diagnostics and MIR Opt are the only two w/out a page in the repo. But there's probably more we can do to try and ensure the groups are successful.

to return to this

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:21, on Zulip):

(unless there is something else)

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:21, on Zulip):

I've been reflecting on what it takes to run a working group, which is a theme we've touched upon

Santiago Pastorino (Mar 07 2019 at 19:21, on Zulip):

that is, in the working-groups/meta/README.md or something

you want to link the dropbox paper from the repo? or did I understand that wrong?

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:21, on Zulip):

I think we definitely should be giving people more structure to start with

Santiago Pastorino (Mar 07 2019 at 19:21, on Zulip):

can do that

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:21, on Zulip):

but also I was thinking that the hardest part

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:21, on Zulip):

is often "breaking the task down"

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:22, on Zulip):

this is sometimes a matter of knowing the code very well, where to refactor etc

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:22, on Zulip):

but I think it's also a matter of doing planning, which is something that frankly is really dang hard

Santiago Pastorino (Mar 07 2019 at 19:22, on Zulip):

yes

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:22, on Zulip):

I was wondering about trying to make a kind of public call for Project Managers or other people who are interested in getting involved

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:22, on Zulip):

e.g. over the Rust All Hands, many mornings @Jonathan Turner and I would sit down and talk over strategy for compiler team etc, and it was really helpful to have someone to talk things out with in terms of planning, even though he didn't know the particulars

Santiago Pastorino (Mar 07 2019 at 19:22, on Zulip):

just the willingness of doing something is not enough

davidtwco (Mar 07 2019 at 19:23, on Zulip):

I think there are two key things here:

Santiago Pastorino (Mar 07 2019 at 19:23, on Zulip):

this kind of stuff needs planning, needs to have someone focused, needs leadership among other things

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:23, on Zulip):

(I'm always on the lookout for non-coding roles)

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:23, on Zulip):

yes to what both of you wrote :)

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:24, on Zulip):

I'm not sure how useful it is, but I'm drawing a comparison to making a starter for pizza dough, I don't expect that will be a useful analogy for many though.

lol

Santiago Pastorino (Mar 07 2019 at 19:24, on Zulip):

e.g. over the Rust All Hands, many mornings Jonathan Turner and I would sit down and talk over strategy for compiler team etc, and it was really helpful to have someone to talk things out with in terms of planning, even though he didn't know the particulars

yes this is useful

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:24, on Zulip):

my sense @davidtwco is that the self-sustaining part is only partly right actually

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:24, on Zulip):

e.g., with NLL, something I think we could have done more of

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:24, on Zulip):

is periodically making a "renewed call for participation"

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:25, on Zulip):

basically, each time you do that, some number of people show up, most wind up not doing very much, but some stick around

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:25, on Zulip):

but I guess it also depends on the scale

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:25, on Zulip):

NLL was somewhat exceptional

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:25, on Zulip):

and, it's worth saying, I'm not sure how many more people we could have productively engaged

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:25, on Zulip):

so maybe it worked out just fine

davidtwco (Mar 07 2019 at 19:25, on Zulip):

I think you're absolutely right. I think what I'm thinking is that once you get enough of those folks that stay around, you've got a self-sustaining wg (to some extent).

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:25, on Zulip):

I guess it will depend anywy

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:25, on Zulip):

yeah so I was kind of imagining it'd be interesting to try and get a few folks together

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:26, on Zulip):

who are interestd in helping people out as needed

Santiago Pastorino (Mar 07 2019 at 19:26, on Zulip):

and, it's worth saying, I'm not sure how many more people we could have productively engaged

I wonder, how many left working and more importantly why did they?

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:26, on Zulip):

particularly the beginning of the WG

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:26, on Zulip):

but perhaps in the middle too

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:26, on Zulip):

e.g., when you reach end of a plan and need to do more

davidtwco (Mar 07 2019 at 19:26, on Zulip):

One of the main reasons I wanted a big, difficult-to-edit table of working groups, was so we had somewhere to point interested people to say "here's all the places you can pick from to get involved" - I distinctly remember that table from the impl period when I was getting started.

Santiago Pastorino (Mar 07 2019 at 19:26, on Zulip):

and, it's worth saying, I'm not sure how many more people we could have productively engaged

I wonder, how many left working and more importantly why did they?

I know it may be hard to answer

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:26, on Zulip):

anyway, that was one thought I had, but I suspect there are simpler things :) e.g., writing out more advice

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:27, on Zulip):

One of the main reasons I wanted a big, difficult-to-edit table of working groups, was so we had somewhere to point interested people to say "here's all the places you can pick from to get involved" - I distinctly remember that table from the impl period when I was getting started.

yes, a big central table has been one of my key desires for a while now

davidtwco (Mar 07 2019 at 19:27, on Zulip):

Before you invite all those people, you need to have a bunch of issues ready to start handing out.

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:27, on Zulip):

but I do think that table is a pain to edit :P

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:27, on Zulip):

Before you invite all those people, you need to have a bunch of issues ready to start handing out.

yes..

davidtwco (Mar 07 2019 at 19:27, on Zulip):

I think we're mostly in agreement, what concrete things can we do to try help this?

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:28, on Zulip):

(About the table: I wonder if we can either slim it down or make it auto-generated from some easier-to-edit metadata or move it to a google docs spreadsheet or something, maybe embedded?)

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:28, on Zulip):

Yeah, that's the question

davidtwco (Mar 07 2019 at 19:28, on Zulip):

(About the table: I wonder if we can either slim it down or make it auto-generated from some easier-to-edit metadata or move it to a google docs spreadsheet or something, maybe embedded?)

I think we can probably cut some columns to stuff that new contributors would find useful.

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:28, on Zulip):

First, it suggests a "goal" that is not on our list, which is getting the "how to run a wg document"

Cem Karan (Mar 07 2019 at 19:28, on Zulip):

I was wondering about trying to make a kind of public call for Project Managers or other people who are interested in getting involved

This is going to be a really important role, and will likely take a lot of time. The PM needs to make sure that everyone has tasks that they can accomplish, in addition to working towards a goal. This is a full-time job. How many people are there that are currently paid to work on rust that can take on this role?

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:29, on Zulip):

not many

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:29, on Zulip):

I don't know though that it's going to take that much time

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:29, on Zulip):

I think it depends

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:29, on Zulip):

I think sometimes you will have people who are eager to do the setup, but need help getting started

Cem Karan (Mar 07 2019 at 19:29, on Zulip):

Well, having the issues list is a good start, but being a good PM also means knowing how to break tasks down.

Cem Karan (Mar 07 2019 at 19:30, on Zulip):

And it means knowing who is doing what, and what each person is good at.

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:30, on Zulip):

let me put it this way, I think it will take time, but I don't think it is something that can only be done by a full time hire

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:30, on Zulip):

any more than refactoring the compiler is

Cem Karan (Mar 07 2019 at 19:30, on Zulip):

No, you're right, it can be done by others.

Cem Karan (Mar 07 2019 at 19:30, on Zulip):

Do you know of anyone with the skills to be a good PM?

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:30, on Zulip):

Well, having the issues list is a good start, but being a good PM also means knowing how to break tasks down.

this would be an untraditional PM role, also, because you're not working in a fixed domain with a fixed team

davidtwco (Mar 07 2019 at 19:30, on Zulip):

Knowing what each person is good at is really difficult when it is a fluid group of people who come and go.

Cem Karan (Mar 07 2019 at 19:31, on Zulip):

Knowing what each person is good at is really difficult when it is a fluid group of people who come and go.

My point exactly!

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:31, on Zulip):

Perhaps community organizing is a good metaphor ;)

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:31, on Zulip):

Regardless, I think it's an exciting idea, and I bet we can get people excited to try and figure out how to do it

Cem Karan (Mar 07 2019 at 19:31, on Zulip):

Regardless, I think it's an exciting idea, and I bet we can get people excited to try and figure out how to do it

I agree!

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:31, on Zulip):

as far as paid people, it's basically all I am doing these days ;) but I thikn I'd like help too!

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:31, on Zulip):

(i.e., it's not something I consider myself very good at)

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:32, on Zulip):

but I was really impressed with how helpful a "rubber duck" can be for this

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:32, on Zulip):

which is part of what gives me hope

Cem Karan (Mar 07 2019 at 19:32, on Zulip):

Have you considered talking to any nearby business schools?

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:32, on Zulip):

I am :)

davidtwco (Mar 07 2019 at 19:32, on Zulip):

WG leads will get an idea for it when people contribute regularly, but there will only ever be a handful of these people in a given working group (unless we do really well). Contributors also aren't working on the WG full-time, so things will move slower and it'll be easier to keep track of.

Santiago Pastorino (Mar 07 2019 at 19:32, on Zulip):

Regardless, I think it's an exciting idea, and I bet we can get people excited to try and figure out how to do it

yes, it's a very interesting challenge

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:32, on Zulip):

I imagine the actual breakdown of tasks and stuff will be driven by the WG leads

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:32, on Zulip):

anyway, let's turn from this PM question for a second, to smaller things

Cem Karan (Mar 07 2019 at 19:33, on Zulip):

OK, then the WG leads are what I think of as PMs

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:33, on Zulip):

(yeah, I'm basically proposing "training" for them I think)

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:33, on Zulip):

I think there are two distinct things here:

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:33, on Zulip):

I feel like it's a good idea to try to start with specifics, usually

Santiago Pastorino (Mar 07 2019 at 19:34, on Zulip):

yes

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:34, on Zulip):

@davidtwco you mentioned a few WGs in the beginning you thought maybe could use some assistance getting started, we could reach out to said folks, not sure? (not trying to "point fingers" here or anything)

Santiago Pastorino (Mar 07 2019 at 19:34, on Zulip):

then from specifics you can start building a framework for that

davidtwco (Mar 07 2019 at 19:34, on Zulip):

Yeah, one goal of this WG should be to lay some foundations so that WG leads, normally compiler team members who are (presumably) primarily interested in hacking on the compiler, aren't bogged down too much with the administrative side of things.

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:35, on Zulip):

I do however think we know enough to sketch some kind of advice

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:35, on Zulip):

(basically a lot of the things we said so far at this meeting)

Cem Karan (Mar 07 2019 at 19:35, on Zulip):

Yeah, one goal of this WG should be to lay some foundations so that WG leads, normally compiler team members who are (presumably) primarily interested in hacking on the compiler, aren't bogged down too much with the administrative side of things.

This is one of the reasons why I think getting students in a business school involved might be a way to go...

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:35, on Zulip):

(breaking down tasks, call for people when you know what you want them to do)

davidtwco (Mar 07 2019 at 19:35, on Zulip):

I think all of the working groups (except perhaps RLS 2.0 because it has some established contributor base already - like a dough starter, if I'm going to keep that analogy going) are in that situation, by virtue of the fact they've all just been started.

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:35, on Zulip):

well maybe conducting a kind of "survey" of the state

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:36, on Zulip):

e.g., I think that the rfc-2229 is doing "ok", though it's not really in a state to grow more contributors (which might not be a problem)

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:36, on Zulip):

self-profile is similar

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:36, on Zulip):

traits is in the "figure out the tasks" stage

davidtwco (Mar 07 2019 at 19:37, on Zulip):

self-profile is similar

That's definitely true. I forgot about the activity there. :face_palm:

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:37, on Zulip):

llvm could probably use to write down some initial goals -- I think it was always envisioned as a bit slower and more open-ended

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:37, on Zulip):

async-await is doing pretty good, in the sense that we have triage and a vague plan, though we need to write out more instructions and/or open a few PRs :)

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:37, on Zulip):

nll is doing well because it pre-exists

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:37, on Zulip):

mir-opt <-- this might be a place where more def'n is needed

davidtwco (Mar 07 2019 at 19:37, on Zulip):

async-await is doing pretty good, in the sense that we have triage and a vague plan, though we need to write out more instructions and/or open a few PRs :slight_smile:

I intend to work my assigned issue from this WG after the meeting.

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:38, on Zulip):

polonius <-- similar, I'm basically hoping we start to get more of that today

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:38, on Zulip):

profile-guided-optimization <-- I think this is presently an "@mw special" and that's kind of ok

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:38, on Zulip):

that's my vague summary of the state of things, apologies if I misrepresented anything

davidtwco (Mar 07 2019 at 19:39, on Zulip):

Diagnostics has been blocked, I think, by a name.

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:39, on Zulip):

heh oh dear!

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:39, on Zulip):

I forgot about that

Santiago Pastorino (Mar 07 2019 at 19:39, on Zulip):

lol

davidtwco (Mar 07 2019 at 19:40, on Zulip):

I'm still not sure what our to-do for this week w/r/t working groups is though.

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:40, on Zulip):

I'm not either

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:40, on Zulip):

I guess we could check in with @oli (I could do that) to try and discuss roadmap-y things

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:41, on Zulip):

that's probably enough honestly

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:41, on Zulip):

it's only 1 week :)

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:41, on Zulip):

(speaking of which, I'd like to do a few other things before my next mtg)

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:42, on Zulip):

(something else that's on my mind is the question of "how to announce updates" that I raised over in this topic, but that's probably a good thing for a "future goal")

davidtwco (Mar 07 2019 at 19:42, on Zulip):

Alright. I guess my meta to-do list will be short this week.

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:43, on Zulip):

@davidtwco if you want, we still have the task of trying to extract goals from our previous brainstorms :)

davidtwco (Mar 07 2019 at 19:43, on Zulip):

I can take a look over our idea list and see what is actionable.

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:43, on Zulip):

Ah, one thing we need

davidtwco (Mar 07 2019 at 19:44, on Zulip):

I was also trying to find time to go over and collate all the Zulip feedback from here and internals to make issues about.

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:44, on Zulip):

We need some way to track which working groups talked at triage and when

Santiago Pastorino (Mar 07 2019 at 19:44, on Zulip):

I'm going to link the dropbox paper to the compiler team doc

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:44, on Zulip):

At least in the current structure, we are sort of "vaguely round-robin", right?

Santiago Pastorino (Mar 07 2019 at 19:44, on Zulip):

and about the experts map, do we want to do something with that also?

davidtwco (Mar 07 2019 at 19:45, on Zulip):

There are some action items in the paper doc for that.

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:45, on Zulip):

I can imagine many formats for this, but I think somebody should make it

Santiago Pastorino (Mar 07 2019 at 19:45, on Zulip):

we have said the redirect

davidtwco (Mar 07 2019 at 19:45, on Zulip):

I can handle that.

Santiago Pastorino (Mar 07 2019 at 19:45, on Zulip):

:+1:

Santiago Pastorino (Mar 07 2019 at 19:45, on Zulip):

saw that now

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:47, on Zulip):

(sorry, I just moved some messages into this topic that I accidentally put in the wrong place, but it makes the log kind of hard to read)

nikomatsakis (Mar 07 2019 at 19:47, on Zulip):

ok, great meeting y'all!

Last update: Nov 18 2019 at 00:55UTC