Stream: t-compiler/wg-meta

Topic: journeypeople inital conversation


nikomatsakis (Mar 01 2019 at 13:57, on Zulip):

@Santiago Pastorino did you get a chance to summarize this conversation?

Santiago Pastorino (Mar 01 2019 at 14:00, on Zulip):

yes

Santiago Pastorino (Mar 01 2019 at 14:00, on Zulip):

shaping it up a bit

Santiago Pastorino (Mar 01 2019 at 14:00, on Zulip):

will share it in < 5 minutes

Santiago Pastorino (Mar 01 2019 at 14:00, on Zulip):

should I put it on paper doc?

nikomatsakis (Mar 01 2019 at 14:03, on Zulip):

I would open a PR on the compiler-team repo

nikomatsakis (Mar 01 2019 at 14:03, on Zulip):

we should make a minutes directory in https://github.com/rust-lang/compiler-team/tree/master/working-groups/meta

nikomatsakis (Mar 01 2019 at 14:04, on Zulip):

and maybe put in there?

nikomatsakis (Mar 01 2019 at 14:04, on Zulip):

but a paper doc is also ok

davidtwco (Mar 01 2019 at 14:04, on Zulip):

we should make a minutes directory in https://github.com/rust-lang/compiler-team/tree/master/working-groups/meta

Isn't that the NOTES.md?

Santiago Pastorino (Mar 01 2019 at 14:04, on Zulip):

that's a question I have, when is people using paper docs? when is people using github repos?

Santiago Pastorino (Mar 01 2019 at 14:05, on Zulip):

is paper doc in some cases preferred over github or it's just that is something that is not defined?

Santiago Pastorino (Mar 01 2019 at 14:05, on Zulip):

it could be even that is a not interesting thing to define

Santiago Pastorino (Mar 01 2019 at 14:05, on Zulip):

unsure :)

Santiago Pastorino (Mar 01 2019 at 14:05, on Zulip):

but it feels like it's hard to keep track what stuff is out there

Santiago Pastorino (Mar 01 2019 at 14:07, on Zulip):
# Roles of journeypeople and team members (questions raised)

- What do we want to solve from a compiler-team and from a member perspective?
  - Help to grow the team by ensuring that we engage people who've started to get active in rustc?
  - Provide a source of people who can help implement things without needing as much mentoring?

- What the journeyperson role means?
  - You know something about the compiler?
  - People willing to commit some time to help run things
  - Should a journeypeople be able to onboard more compiler contributors?
  - r+ rights?
  - Start to do reviews?
  - What should a journeypeople do?

- What does a compiler team member means?

- What's the difference between journeypeople and team members?
  - full members know >1 area?
  - or full members know enough to independently lead a WG in some area?

- What's the way to get into a journeypeople role?
  - Does compiler team members freely propose them and the team make a final call?
  - Is there some formal mechanism for that?

- What's the way to go from journeypeople to full compiler member?

- Is there some sort of ettiquette that journeypeople should represent?
  - What about team members?
Santiago Pastorino (Mar 01 2019 at 14:07, on Zulip):

@nikomatsakis @davidtwco does this ^^^ sounds like what we discussed?

Santiago Pastorino (Mar 01 2019 at 14:08, on Zulip):

do you want to add/remove something?

Santiago Pastorino (Mar 01 2019 at 14:08, on Zulip):

should I just open a PR and you can make corrections there? :)

Santiago Pastorino (Mar 01 2019 at 14:09, on Zulip):

I think I also added one or two things that I considered missing, given that those are basically questions I guessed it didn't hurt

nikomatsakis (Mar 01 2019 at 14:11, on Zulip):

that's a question I have, when is people using paper docs? when is people using github repos?

I like paper docs for active collaboration, github repo for "finished" things

nikomatsakis (Mar 01 2019 at 14:11, on Zulip):

you could view this particular thing in both ways, I think :)

nikomatsakis (Mar 01 2019 at 14:12, on Zulip):

this is why I suggested a minutes directory, though, since in that case it's just recording the conversation we had

nikomatsakis (Mar 01 2019 at 14:13, on Zulip):

Isn't that the NOTES.md?

@davidtwco I don't think so. I think NOTES.md should be less detailed.

nikomatsakis (Mar 01 2019 at 14:13, on Zulip):

That is, I would think of NOTES.md as being "we are going to present a report on what has happened"

nikomatsakis (Mar 01 2019 at 14:13, on Zulip):

whereas the minutes is a detailed summary

davidtwco (Mar 01 2019 at 14:15, on Zulip):

I'm pretty happy with that summary. There's one or two places where I feel there could be more detail. For example:

Does compiler team members freely propose them and the team make a final call?

This point doesn't mention about the mentoring aspect of that suggestion. In that proposed process, a compiler team member nominates a new journeyperson, and is then responsible for mentoring and walking them through the responsibilities of that role, and then it is made final by other people from the compiler team agreeing.

But otherwise, it's great.

nikomatsakis (Mar 01 2019 at 14:16, on Zulip):

I don't know what the part about "Is there some sort of ettiquette that journeypeople should represent?" quite meant

Santiago Pastorino (Mar 01 2019 at 14:16, on Zulip):

I'm pretty happy with that summary. There's one or two places where I feel there could be more detail. For example:

Does compiler team members freely propose them and the team make a final call?

This point doesn't mention about the mentoring aspect of that suggestion. In that proposed process, a compiler team member nominates a new journeyperson, and is then responsible for mentoring and walking them through the responsibilities of that role, and then it is made final by other people from the compiler team agreeing.

But otherwise, it's great.

:+1:

davidtwco (Mar 01 2019 at 14:16, on Zulip):

I don't know what the part about "Is there some sort of ettiquette that journeypeople should represent?" quite meant

I think this is related to a question I asked yesterday in the meeting:

The only other thoughts regarding journeyperson stuff I had was surrounding criteria and the ettiquette around it (e.g. if I were a journeyperson I'd want to make sure I don't misrepresent what that means).

Santiago Pastorino (Mar 01 2019 at 14:16, on Zulip):

let me add something like that

Santiago Pastorino (Mar 01 2019 at 14:17, on Zulip):

I don't know what the part about "Is there some sort of ettiquette that journeypeople should represent?" quite meant

I think this is related to a question I asked yesterday in the meeting:

The only other thoughts regarding journeyperson stuff I had was surrounding criteria and the ettiquette around it (e.g. if I were a journeyperson I'd want to make sure I don't misrepresent what that means).

yes

Santiago Pastorino (Mar 01 2019 at 14:17, on Zulip):

unsure if I should tweak the text better

nikomatsakis (Mar 01 2019 at 14:18, on Zulip):

it's ok, I think open the PR, maybe we'll make a few suggestions

Santiago Pastorino (Mar 01 2019 at 14:19, on Zulip):

I'm pretty happy with that summary. There's one or two places where I feel there could be more detail. For example:

Does compiler team members freely propose them and the team make a final call?

This point doesn't mention about the mentoring aspect of that suggestion. In that proposed process, a compiler team member nominates a new journeyperson, and is then responsible for mentoring and walking them through the responsibilities of that role, and then it is made final by other people from the compiler team agreeing.

But otherwise, it's great.

for that added ... - Do compiler members that propose journeypersons are the ones that mentor them?

Santiago Pastorino (Mar 01 2019 at 14:19, on Zulip):

doing that now

Santiago Pastorino (Mar 01 2019 at 14:25, on Zulip):

@nikomatsakis @davidtwco https://github.com/rust-lang/compiler-team/pull/23

nikomatsakis (Mar 05 2019 at 22:25, on Zulip):

I'm reading https://github.com/rust-lang/compiler-team/pull/23/ -- it seems fine to me, but I see @davidtwco has a few uncommitted edits and things. @Santiago Pastorino do you want to merge those in ?

nikomatsakis (Mar 05 2019 at 22:25, on Zulip):

I'd like to see it merged

nikomatsakis (Mar 05 2019 at 22:26, on Zulip):

one other thing is that I think maybe we should move the meeting minutes into individual files in a minutes directory -- at least I prefer that. I'd sort of like NOTES.md to be more of a "summary" of where things are at, prepared or updated more rarely, with the full minutes being add'l detail, but that's a side issue

Santiago Pastorino (Mar 06 2019 at 14:40, on Zulip):

I'm reading https://github.com/rust-lang/compiler-team/pull/23/ -- it seems fine to me, but I see davidtwco has a few uncommitted edits and things. Santiago Pastorino do you want to merge those in ?

doing that now

Santiago Pastorino (Mar 06 2019 at 14:40, on Zulip):

one other thing is that I think maybe we should move the meeting minutes into individual files in a minutes directory -- at least I prefer that. I'd sort of like NOTES.md to be more of a "summary" of where things are at, prepared or updated more rarely, with the full minutes being add'l detail, but that's a side issue

I guess we can make a separate PR for that

nikomatsakis (Mar 06 2019 at 17:48, on Zulip):

great. I left some comments. @Santiago Pastorino I still see a few minor edits (e.g., adding "Written by"), or this wording suggestion that are probably worth taking

nikomatsakis (Mar 06 2019 at 17:48, on Zulip):

strangely I don't seem to be able to "take" those suggestions

davidtwco (Mar 06 2019 at 17:50, on Zulip):

It would be nice to be able to present these questions to the compiler team at some point, ideally before our next meeting so we can discuss next steps.

Santiago Pastorino (Mar 06 2019 at 20:20, on Zulip):

@nikomatsakis @davidtwco addressed I guess all the comments https://github.com/rust-lang/compiler-team/pull/23

Santiago Pastorino (Mar 06 2019 at 20:20, on Zulip):

give it a last glance :)

nikomatsakis (Mar 06 2019 at 20:22, on Zulip):

ok, let's merge :)

Last update: Nov 18 2019 at 00:45UTC