Stream: t-compiler/wg-meta

Topic: charter for focused and efficient triage


nikomatsakis (Feb 28 2020 at 16:05, on Zulip):

A place to discuss the "charter" or "mission statement" for a compiler-team triage working group

nikomatsakis (Feb 28 2020 at 16:06, on Zulip):

first draft:

nikomatsakis (Feb 28 2020 at 16:06, on Zulip):

Compiler team wg-triage has the high-level goal of:

* processing 'nominations' and routing bugs to folks who can fix them
* identifying *critical* bugs and monitoring them to ensure they are making progress
* identifying the agenda for compiler team triage meetings
    * critical issues that are not making progress
    * issues where bugs are nominated for needing wider discussion
        * ideally, crystallize
* tracking deferred things and ensuring they are picked up again
    * future compatibility warnings
    * anything else?
nikomatsakis (Feb 28 2020 at 16:07, on Zulip):

from here

pnkfelix (Feb 28 2020 at 16:18, on Zulip):

by the way, can I get a :hand: on this message if you are interested in being part of the initial compiler triage

nikomatsakis (Feb 28 2020 at 16:19, on Zulip):

also maybe we should try to pick a less confusing name (i.e., one that overlaps less with release team wg-triage), since it seems like we continue to think those should be distinct

LeSeulArtichaut (Feb 28 2020 at 16:27, on Zulip):

nikomatsakis said:

also maybe we should try to pick a less confusing name (i.e., one that overlaps less with release team wg-triage)

Maybe something with "issues" in it? wg-compiler-issues?

pnkfelix (Feb 28 2020 at 16:27, on Zulip):

@nikomatsakis and I were brainstorming variations on "routing", "prioritization", and "alarm bells"

pnkfelix (Feb 28 2020 at 16:28, on Zulip):

wg-classify

pnkfelix (Feb 28 2020 at 16:28, on Zulip):

(but of course that ignores the very important role of monitoring and revisiting)

Pietro Albini (Feb 28 2020 at 16:29, on Zulip):

wg-felixes

pnkfelix (Feb 28 2020 at 16:29, on Zulip):

wg-priority-queue

Santiago Pastorino (Feb 28 2020 at 20:33, on Zulip):

wg-classy

Santiago Pastorino (Mar 17 2020 at 21:24, on Zulip):

@nikomatsakis @pnkfelix should we start organizing the effort of creating a working group for this?

Santiago Pastorino (Mar 17 2020 at 21:24, on Zulip):

maybe we can talk a bit tomorrow early?

nikomatsakis (Mar 17 2020 at 21:26, on Zulip):

Yes, I think we should.

nikomatsakis (Mar 17 2020 at 21:26, on Zulip):

I'll be around tomorrow early if we want to chat then.

Santiago Pastorino (Mar 17 2020 at 21:26, on Zulip):

:+1:

Santiago Pastorino (Mar 17 2020 at 21:26, on Zulip):

we would need to go over this https://rust-lang.github.io/compiler-team/procedures/form-new-working-group/ I guess

nikomatsakis (Mar 17 2020 at 21:30, on Zulip):

yeah. I think we've kind of done the first step of "determining interest"

nikomatsakis (Mar 18 2020 at 13:26, on Zulip):

@Santiago Pastorino you around now?

Santiago Pastorino (Mar 18 2020 at 14:06, on Zulip):

@nikomatsakis hey

Santiago Pastorino (Mar 18 2020 at 14:06, on Zulip):

should we go over this?

nikomatsakis (Mar 18 2020 at 14:09, on Zulip):

Yep, might as well, is @pnkfelix around?

Santiago Pastorino (Mar 18 2020 at 14:10, on Zulip):

I'm around and ready when you both can

nikomatsakis (Mar 18 2020 at 14:12, on Zulip):

Well

nikomatsakis (Mar 18 2020 at 14:13, on Zulip):

you mentioned this checklist before

Santiago Pastorino (Mar 18 2020 at 14:14, on Zulip):

yep

Santiago Pastorino (Mar 18 2020 at 14:14, on Zulip):

step 0. done, we know what's a working group :joy:

nikomatsakis (Mar 18 2020 at 14:14, on Zulip):
nikomatsakis (Mar 18 2020 at 14:14, on Zulip):

then we need to

nikomatsakis (Mar 18 2020 at 14:15, on Zulip):
nikomatsakis (Mar 18 2020 at 14:15, on Zulip):

I guess we do need to pick a name?

DPC (Mar 18 2020 at 14:15, on Zulip):

I agree

Santiago Pastorino (Mar 18 2020 at 14:15, on Zulip):
  1. I can!
  2. we should have a regular meeting yes, I'd say wednesday is the day, today I'm going over the triaging btw
  3. I'm willing to do the work :)
Santiago Pastorino (Mar 18 2020 at 14:16, on Zulip):

nikomatsakis said:

I guess we do need to pick a name?

I'd say t-compiler/wg-triage, t-compiler/triage-wg or the same but instead of triage, pre-triage

nikomatsakis (Mar 18 2020 at 14:16, on Zulip):

I'd also say that we want to

Santiago Pastorino (Mar 18 2020 at 14:17, on Zulip):

maybe it is

nikomatsakis (Mar 18 2020 at 14:17, on Zulip):

I guess the "charter" is more like "write the page on the team repo" to say what we will be doing

Santiago Pastorino (Mar 18 2020 at 14:17, on Zulip):

I was going to say that other people have said they are interested

Santiago Pastorino (Mar 18 2020 at 14:17, on Zulip):

let me search quickly

Santiago Pastorino (Mar 18 2020 at 14:17, on Zulip):

I remember @Wesley Wiser was one

Santiago Pastorino (Mar 18 2020 at 14:18, on Zulip):

@Yuki Okushi and @LeSeulArtichaut

Santiago Pastorino (Mar 18 2020 at 14:19, on Zulip):

nikomatsakis said:

I guess the "charter" is more like "write the page on the team repo" to say what we will be doing

yes

Santiago Pastorino (Mar 18 2020 at 14:19, on Zulip):

Santiago Pastorino said:

nikomatsakis said:

I guess we do need to pick a name?

I'd say t-compiler/wg-triage, t-compiler/triage-wg or the same but instead of triage, pre-triage

@nikomatsakis thoughts about names?

Santiago Pastorino (Mar 18 2020 at 14:19, on Zulip):

I can't come up with more names :P

nikomatsakis (Mar 18 2020 at 14:20, on Zulip):

so the main concern with wg-triage is that it's ambiguous between "release team" and "compiler team", right?

nikomatsakis (Mar 18 2020 at 14:20, on Zulip):

but wg-pre-triage doesn't seem (to me) to provide much clarity, and it's even a bit more confusing somehow, because it (to me) suggests that "compiler team is pre-triaging things for release team triage" :)

Santiago Pastorino (Mar 18 2020 at 14:21, on Zulip):

right, I was thinking well the t-compiler/ part fixes that but it's true that when you use the name would be confusing

nikomatsakis (Mar 18 2020 at 14:21, on Zulip):

I'm inclined to go w/ wg-triage I guess and just have a note on the page that links to release team wg-triage and tries to clarify the different roles

nikomatsakis (Mar 18 2020 at 14:21, on Zulip):

Santiago Pastorino said:

right, I was thinking well the t-compiler/ part fixes that but it's true that when you use the name would be confusing

yeah, I mean it's unambiguous when fully specified :)

nikomatsakis (Mar 18 2020 at 14:21, on Zulip):

nikomatsakis said:

I'm inclined to go w/ wg-triage I guess and just have a note on the page that links to release team wg-triage and tries to clarify the different roles

to be clear I mean t-compiler/wg-triage

Santiago Pastorino (Mar 18 2020 at 14:22, on Zulip):

nikomatsakis said:

Santiago Pastorino said:

right, I was thinking well the t-compiler/ part fixes that but it's true that when you use the name would be confusing

yeah, I mean it's unambiguous when fully specified :)

I just meant that people refer to working groups in general using their names nobody says t-compiler/wg-polonius :)

Santiago Pastorino (Mar 18 2020 at 14:22, on Zulip):

people just say wg-polonius

nikomatsakis (Mar 18 2020 at 14:22, on Zulip):

right

Santiago Pastorino (Mar 18 2020 at 14:22, on Zulip):

so doing that with wg-triage would cause some confusion

nikomatsakis (Mar 18 2020 at 14:22, on Zulip):

this is why I do predict room for confusion

Santiago Pastorino (Mar 18 2020 at 14:23, on Zulip):

anyway :)

nikomatsakis (Mar 18 2020 at 14:23, on Zulip):

well

nikomatsakis (Mar 18 2020 at 14:24, on Zulip):

I guess t-compiler/wg-meeting-prep is maybe too narrow?

nikomatsakis (Mar 18 2020 at 14:24, on Zulip):

t-compiler/wg-issue-tracking

Santiago Pastorino (Mar 18 2020 at 14:25, on Zulip):

yeah I guess something like that last one :)

Santiago Pastorino (Mar 18 2020 at 14:25, on Zulip):

I don't have strong opinions so to me wg-issue-tracking is good enough

nikomatsakis (Mar 18 2020 at 14:26, on Zulip):

wg-prioritize

nikomatsakis (Mar 18 2020 at 14:26, on Zulip):

I'm looking at synonyms for "triage" :)

Santiago Pastorino (Mar 18 2020 at 14:26, on Zulip):

yep

pnkfelix (Mar 18 2020 at 14:26, on Zulip):

I was just about to write wg-prioritization

pnkfelix (Mar 18 2020 at 14:26, on Zulip):

but hardware failures delayed me

Santiago Pastorino (Mar 18 2020 at 14:27, on Zulip):

I like those better, yeah

nikomatsakis (Mar 18 2020 at 14:27, on Zulip):

any of those last few wfm, it's probably better to avoid the obvious conflict over the much used "triage" term

pnkfelix (Mar 18 2020 at 14:27, on Zulip):

we could alternatively try to emphasize that this is the second round of triage/priorization effort

pnkfelix (Mar 18 2020 at 14:27, on Zulip):

triage^2

Santiago Pastorino (Mar 18 2020 at 14:27, on Zulip):

unsure if prioritize or prioritization, I guess, given that wg-triage is triage not triaging, I'd go with prioritize

pnkfelix (Mar 18 2020 at 14:27, on Zulip):

priority-ii

pnkfelix (Mar 18 2020 at 14:28, on Zulip):

I-ai-ai-ii

pnkfelix (Mar 18 2020 at 14:28, on Zulip):

!!-ii

nikomatsakis (Mar 18 2020 at 14:28, on Zulip):

what is happenign :)

pnkfelix (Mar 18 2020 at 14:28, on Zulip):

my brain is melting

nikomatsakis (Mar 18 2020 at 14:28, on Zulip):

/poll which of these basically equivalent names do we like best

Santiago Pastorino (Mar 18 2020 at 14:28, on Zulip):

hehe, anyway, given my weak english I can't argue about this that much :P

nikomatsakis (Mar 18 2020 at 14:29, on Zulip):

pretty sure we should avoid ^ :)

Santiago Pastorino (Mar 18 2020 at 14:30, on Zulip):

LOL

nikomatsakis (Mar 18 2020 at 14:30, on Zulip):

I sort of like "the prioritization working group"

nikomatsakis (Mar 18 2020 at 14:30, on Zulip):

although dang it's hard to type

nikomatsakis (Mar 18 2020 at 14:30, on Zulip):

:)

Santiago Pastorino (Mar 18 2020 at 14:30, on Zulip):

I've voted for both because out of those I'm unsure

Santiago Pastorino (Mar 18 2020 at 14:33, on Zulip):

seems like we have a clear winner, wg-prioritization then

nikomatsakis (Mar 18 2020 at 14:34, on Zulip):

tada

nikomatsakis (Mar 18 2020 at 14:34, on Zulip):

that only took the majority of the meeting time :lollipop:

nikomatsakis (Mar 18 2020 at 14:34, on Zulip):

@Santiago Pastorino maybe open a compielr-team issue with a checklist?

nikomatsakis (Mar 18 2020 at 14:34, on Zulip):

we can get this done quickly enough I guess

nikomatsakis (Mar 18 2020 at 14:35, on Zulip):

are there other things to be decided?

Santiago Pastorino (Mar 18 2020 at 14:35, on Zulip):

yeah I can open an issue with a checklist

Santiago Pastorino (Mar 18 2020 at 14:35, on Zulip):

nikomatsakis said:

are there other things to be decided?

I think this is a good start, I guess once we have a clear set of tasks we can start moving them

nikomatsakis (Mar 18 2020 at 14:36, on Zulip):

I am kind of assuming once group is up and going we'll also evolve a bit more

nikomatsakis (Mar 18 2020 at 14:36, on Zulip):

i.e., we may start to shift structure of meeting slightl etc

nikomatsakis (Mar 18 2020 at 14:36, on Zulip):

but for now we will match the way @pnkfelix has been doing it

nikomatsakis (Mar 18 2020 at 14:37, on Zulip):

it occurs to me that @pnkfelix may also not wish to have a "lead"-like role :)

nikomatsakis (Mar 18 2020 at 14:37, on Zulip):

I don't think that's a requirement

pnkfelix (Mar 18 2020 at 14:37, on Zulip):

I certainly don't think its necessary for me to be a lead of this WG

Santiago Pastorino (Mar 18 2020 at 14:37, on Zulip):

yeah, I think it will be fine

pnkfelix (Mar 18 2020 at 14:38, on Zulip):

but I'm going to try to participate as best I can

Santiago Pastorino (Mar 18 2020 at 14:38, on Zulip):

I'd say Felix can be an advisor :)

nikomatsakis (Mar 18 2020 at 14:39, on Zulip):

OK, so let's make that checklist and just get it done

nikomatsakis (Mar 18 2020 at 14:39, on Zulip):

/me in the mood to cross things off a list

nikomatsakis (Mar 18 2020 at 14:40, on Zulip):

which reminds me that I need to go start doing the "refund all hands expenses" paperwork

nikomatsakis (Mar 18 2020 at 14:40, on Zulip):

:)

Santiago Pastorino (Mar 18 2020 at 14:40, on Zulip):

:)

Last update: Sep 28 2020 at 15:45UTC