Stream: t-compiler/wg-meta

Topic: meeting 2020.05.28


Santiago Pastorino (May 28 2020 at 18:00, on Zulip):

@T-compiler/WG-meta :wave:

nikomatsakis (May 28 2020 at 18:08, on Zulip):

Wave

nikomatsakis (May 28 2020 at 18:08, on Zulip):

Sorry, I've been kind of heads down in reviewing

nikomatsakis (May 28 2020 at 18:08, on Zulip):

so..many..PRs...

nikomatsakis (May 28 2020 at 18:08, on Zulip):

Anyway, we were going to try and do some of the work to setup the windows group, right?

Santiago Pastorino (May 28 2020 at 18:08, on Zulip):

yes

Santiago Pastorino (May 28 2020 at 18:09, on Zulip):

remember me if we had some document already about this

Santiago Pastorino (May 28 2020 at 18:09, on Zulip):

I kind of forgot about everything :P

Santiago Pastorino (May 28 2020 at 18:09, on Zulip):

searching though

nikomatsakis (May 28 2020 at 18:10, on Zulip):

there's some issue

nikomatsakis (May 28 2020 at 18:10, on Zulip):

with a checklist

nikomatsakis (May 28 2020 at 18:10, on Zulip):

I think

nikomatsakis (May 28 2020 at 18:10, on Zulip):

well I mean the MCP kind of outlines also

Santiago Pastorino (May 28 2020 at 18:10, on Zulip):

https://hackmd.io/TriAwtjpQ5iCs37QvUdYVg

Santiago Pastorino (May 28 2020 at 18:10, on Zulip):

yeah and also that

Santiago Pastorino (May 28 2020 at 18:11, on Zulip):

@nikomatsakis we want to go ahead and setup everything, right?

Santiago Pastorino (May 28 2020 at 18:11, on Zulip):

so we should create #t-compiler/wg-windows

nikomatsakis (May 28 2020 at 18:11, on Zulip):

ok a checklist is https://github.com/rust-lang/compiler-team/issues/282

nikomatsakis (May 28 2020 at 18:12, on Zulip):

I think so yes

nikomatsakis (May 28 2020 at 18:12, on Zulip):

except that

nikomatsakis (May 28 2020 at 18:12, on Zulip):

we weren't going to make "members" and things to start

nikomatsakis (May 28 2020 at 18:12, on Zulip):

just a "meta-group"

Santiago Pastorino (May 28 2020 at 18:13, on Zulip):

do you want to split some of those tasks?

nikomatsakis (May 28 2020 at 18:13, on Zulip):

yeah let's see

nikomatsakis (May 28 2020 at 18:13, on Zulip):

you want to create the Windows toml file maybe?

Santiago Pastorino (May 28 2020 at 18:14, on Zulip):

yeah whatever

Santiago Pastorino (May 28 2020 at 18:14, on Zulip):

do you want me to do the odd items in the list and you the even?

Santiago Pastorino (May 28 2020 at 18:14, on Zulip):

or something like that?

nikomatsakis (May 28 2020 at 18:14, on Zulip):

I'll write some stuff in the rustc-dev-guide and/or a blog post?

Santiago Pastorino (May 28 2020 at 18:14, on Zulip):

ok

nikomatsakis (May 28 2020 at 18:14, on Zulip):

I was thinking I would take on more of the "writing" tasks

nikomatsakis (May 28 2020 at 18:14, on Zulip):

to start

Santiago Pastorino (May 28 2020 at 18:15, on Zulip):

:+1:

Santiago Pastorino (May 28 2020 at 18:15, on Zulip):

should I also create the github label?

Santiago Pastorino (May 28 2020 at 18:15, on Zulip):

Create a Github label ICEBreaker-Windows -- or maybe use O-windows

nikomatsakis (May 28 2020 at 18:16, on Zulip):

I think we can use O-windows?

Santiago Pastorino (May 28 2020 at 18:16, on Zulip):

or should we use ... yeah

Santiago Pastorino (May 28 2020 at 18:16, on Zulip):

:+1:

Santiago Pastorino (May 28 2020 at 18:17, on Zulip):

are we going with icebreakers-windows?

Santiago Pastorino (May 28 2020 at 18:17, on Zulip):

well we've said wg-windows, right?

Santiago Pastorino (May 28 2020 at 18:19, on Zulip):

basically I wonder if this ...

Santiago Pastorino (May 28 2020 at 18:19, on Zulip):
$ cat wg-windows.toml
name = "wg-windows"
marker-team = true

[people]
leads = []
members = [
    "spastorino",
]
Santiago Pastorino (May 28 2020 at 18:19, on Zulip):

is what we want

nikomatsakis (May 28 2020 at 18:24, on Zulip):

@Santiago Pastorino I think it should be a meta group

nikomatsakis (May 28 2020 at 18:24, on Zulip):

oh

nikomatsakis (May 28 2020 at 18:24, on Zulip):

it is

nikomatsakis (May 28 2020 at 18:24, on Zulip):

I guess that sounds right

Santiago Pastorino (May 28 2020 at 18:24, on Zulip):

ok what else should I do?

nikomatsakis (May 28 2020 at 18:24, on Zulip):

the only question is whether to call it wg-windows-notify.toml, in anticipation of creating a "true" working group as well

nikomatsakis (May 28 2020 at 18:24, on Zulip):

but I think let's call it wg-windows

nikomatsakis (May 28 2020 at 18:24, on Zulip):

and either we never create the "full working group" (possible)

Santiago Pastorino (May 28 2020 at 18:24, on Zulip):

:+1:

Santiago Pastorino (May 28 2020 at 18:24, on Zulip):

Configure the rust-lang/rust repository to support the ICE-breakers commands, similar to this

nikomatsakis (May 28 2020 at 18:25, on Zulip):

or else we extend the model to merge meta groups and normal groups, as we've discussed

Santiago Pastorino (May 28 2020 at 18:25, on Zulip):

maybe I should tackle that one?

nikomatsakis (May 28 2020 at 18:25, on Zulip):

+1

Santiago Pastorino (May 28 2020 at 18:25, on Zulip):

or were you writing those texts?

nikomatsakis (May 28 2020 at 18:25, on Zulip):

I think the blog post is basically ready: https://hackmd.io/3oMWDAyGT8-GxV5p9nLRnw

nikomatsakis (May 28 2020 at 18:25, on Zulip):

one thing that we might want to clarify is how much of a "windows guru" you should be

Santiago Pastorino (May 28 2020 at 18:25, on Zulip):

nikomatsakis said:

+1

ok gonna do that

nikomatsakis (May 28 2020 at 18:25, on Zulip):

I don't 100% know what I think the answer is

Santiago Pastorino (May 28 2020 at 18:25, on Zulip):

yeah

nikomatsakis (May 28 2020 at 18:25, on Zulip):

I could see there being a good role just for people who want to e.g. try to reproduce problems

Santiago Pastorino (May 28 2020 at 18:26, on Zulip):

I've added myself to have this with some members but is there someone interested in being in the list that you know?

nikomatsakis (May 28 2020 at 18:26, on Zulip):

but I feel like this is more going to be for help deciding the right course of action on some PR or something

nikomatsakis (May 28 2020 at 18:26, on Zulip):

Santiago Pastorino said:

I've added myself to have this with some members but is there someone interested in being in the list that you know?

@Ryan Levick I think

Santiago Pastorino (May 28 2020 at 18:26, on Zulip):

unsure if Ryan Levick wants ...

Santiago Pastorino (May 28 2020 at 18:26, on Zulip):

yeah

nikomatsakis (May 28 2020 at 18:26, on Zulip):

btw

nikomatsakis (May 28 2020 at 18:26, on Zulip):

one thing I'm expecting is an example PR for how to add yourself

nikomatsakis (May 28 2020 at 18:27, on Zulip):

with a comment that explains you have to run cargo run --add-person or whatever

Santiago Pastorino (May 28 2020 at 18:27, on Zulip):

yeah I can do those things

Santiago Pastorino (May 28 2020 at 18:30, on Zulip):

do we want something like ...

Santiago Pastorino (May 28 2020 at 18:30, on Zulip):
[ping.wg-windows]
message = """\
Hey Windows WG! This bug has been identified as a good
"Windows WG candidate". In case it's useful, here are some
[instructions] for tackling these sorts of bugs. Maybe take a look?
Thanks! <3
[instructions]: https://rust-lang.github.io/rustc-guide/ice-breaker/wg-windows.html
"""
label = "O-windows"
Santiago Pastorino (May 28 2020 at 18:30, on Zulip):

?

Santiago Pastorino (May 28 2020 at 18:30, on Zulip):

if so, we would need instructions in rustc-dev-guide

Santiago Pastorino (May 28 2020 at 18:30, on Zulip):

unsure if we want to place them under ice-breaker

Santiago Pastorino (May 28 2020 at 18:32, on Zulip):

and also https://github.com/rust-lang/team/pull/347

Santiago Pastorino (May 28 2020 at 18:32, on Zulip):

@nikomatsakis ^^^

nikomatsakis (May 28 2020 at 18:33, on Zulip):

hmm

nikomatsakis (May 28 2020 at 18:33, on Zulip):

yes so I was going to write up some instructions

nikomatsakis (May 28 2020 at 18:33, on Zulip):

but it's true they don't quite belong in ICE breaker

nikomatsakis (May 28 2020 at 18:33, on Zulip):

I might just rename that section

Santiago Pastorino (May 28 2020 at 18:35, on Zulip):

one easy thing I could do is open a PR with what we have and once you finish and we figure out where it belongs I can adjust the text

nikomatsakis (May 28 2020 at 18:35, on Zulip):

yep

Santiago Pastorino (May 28 2020 at 18:36, on Zulip):

ERROR validation error: team wg-windows seems like a working group but has wg = false

Santiago Pastorino (May 28 2020 at 18:36, on Zulip):

should I just go with windows itself?

Santiago Pastorino (May 28 2020 at 18:36, on Zulip):

or make it a working group?

Santiago Pastorino (May 28 2020 at 18:36, on Zulip):

ahh right, we don't want a wg because that would mean it will show up on the website

nikomatsakis (May 28 2020 at 18:37, on Zulip):

well I think marker-teams don't?

nikomatsakis (May 28 2020 at 18:37, on Zulip):

I guess this is just about the name of the file? :)

Santiago Pastorino (May 28 2020 at 18:37, on Zulip):

yes

Santiago Pastorino (May 28 2020 at 18:37, on Zulip):

I think so

nikomatsakis (May 28 2020 at 18:37, on Zulip):

I think it can be called windows.toml

Santiago Pastorino (May 28 2020 at 18:37, on Zulip):

:+1:

Santiago Pastorino (May 28 2020 at 18:37, on Zulip):

but inside it still refer to it by wg-windows?

nikomatsakis (May 28 2020 at 18:37, on Zulip):

sigh

Santiago Pastorino (May 28 2020 at 18:37, on Zulip):

it may be that the code is checking the name and not the file name

nikomatsakis (May 28 2020 at 18:37, on Zulip):

I think so yes

nikomatsakis (May 28 2020 at 18:38, on Zulip):

oh

Santiago Pastorino (May 28 2020 at 18:38, on Zulip):

let's see

nikomatsakis (May 28 2020 at 18:38, on Zulip):

I meant more like "the name of the Zulip stream"

nikomatsakis (May 28 2020 at 18:38, on Zulip):

re: where to document it

nikomatsakis (May 28 2020 at 18:38, on Zulip):

maybe we should put the "homepage" for it on https://rust-lang.github.io/compiler-team/ ?

Santiago Pastorino (May 28 2020 at 18:38, on Zulip):

https://github.com/rust-lang/team/blob/ccb117dae129d1c4cac2252b09b6f90e085494a7/src/validate.rs#L70

Santiago Pastorino (May 28 2020 at 18:38, on Zulip):

:P

nikomatsakis (May 28 2020 at 18:38, on Zulip):

also that list of working groups really needs to be "Collated"

Santiago Pastorino (May 28 2020 at 18:38, on Zulip):

it's about the name and not the file name

nikomatsakis (May 28 2020 at 18:39, on Zulip):

but anyway it'd be reasonable to have Windows in the list

Santiago Pastorino (May 28 2020 at 18:39, on Zulip):

so you meant to make it a real wg?

Santiago Pastorino (May 28 2020 at 18:39, on Zulip):

and then list it on compiler-team?

nikomatsakis (May 28 2020 at 18:39, on Zulip):

ah terminology :)

nikomatsakis (May 28 2020 at 18:39, on Zulip):

what does "real" mean

Santiago Pastorino (May 28 2020 at 18:39, on Zulip):

hehe :)

Santiago Pastorino (May 28 2020 at 18:39, on Zulip):

wg=true in team :)

Santiago Pastorino (May 28 2020 at 18:40, on Zulip):

which means ...

nikomatsakis (May 28 2020 at 18:40, on Zulip):

well long term I think that might be a good idea yes

nikomatsakis (May 28 2020 at 18:40, on Zulip):

but in the short term I thought not to do that

nikomatsakis (May 28 2020 at 18:40, on Zulip):

because we would then (I believe) have to pick leads, members

nikomatsakis (May 28 2020 at 18:40, on Zulip):

vs just a list that anybody can add themselves to

Santiago Pastorino (May 28 2020 at 18:40, on Zulip):

yeah

nikomatsakis (May 28 2020 at 18:40, on Zulip):

and we're still sort of discussing this idea of having working groups for different "areas"

nikomatsakis (May 28 2020 at 18:41, on Zulip):

and I think this would be one of those

Santiago Pastorino (May 28 2020 at 18:41, on Zulip):

it means that they will be part of wg-leads@rust-lang.org and a lot of stuff like that

nikomatsakis (May 28 2020 at 18:41, on Zulip):

that said I don't really know what wg=true does if marker-team=true is also set

nikomatsakis (May 28 2020 at 18:41, on Zulip):

right, avoid that for now

nikomatsakis (May 28 2020 at 18:41, on Zulip):

I think I'll just rename the ICE-breaker section of the dev-guid to "notification groups"

Santiago Pastorino (May 28 2020 at 18:42, on Zulip):

let's go with just windows then?

nikomatsakis (May 28 2020 at 18:42, on Zulip):

actually I realize that the LLVM ICE-breakers is really kind of the same idea

nikomatsakis (May 28 2020 at 18:42, on Zulip):

oh I guess this will mess up the URLs :(

nikomatsakis (May 28 2020 at 18:42, on Zulip):

I wonder how many links we have to the old names

nikomatsakis (May 28 2020 at 18:43, on Zulip):

probably not too many

nikomatsakis (May 28 2020 at 18:43, on Zulip):

some old blog posts

nikomatsakis (May 28 2020 at 18:43, on Zulip):

we'll fix 'em

Santiago Pastorino (May 28 2020 at 18:43, on Zulip):

old names being?

nikomatsakis (May 28 2020 at 18:45, on Zulip):

one sec

nikomatsakis (May 28 2020 at 18:45, on Zulip):

https://github.com/nikomatsakis/rustc-guide/tree/notification-groups

nikomatsakis (May 28 2020 at 18:45, on Zulip):

maybe that makes it clearer

Santiago Pastorino (May 28 2020 at 18:47, on Zulip):

team#347 is green

Santiago Pastorino (May 28 2020 at 18:47, on Zulip):

nikomatsakis said:

https://github.com/nikomatsakis/rustc-guide/tree/notification-groups

let me see

Santiago Pastorino (May 28 2020 at 18:47, on Zulip):

yes

Santiago Pastorino (May 28 2020 at 18:48, on Zulip):

I don't remember exactly what happens with the commands and all that

Santiago Pastorino (May 28 2020 at 18:48, on Zulip):

I guess we may prefer to get rid of the icebreaker part in @rustbot ping ICEBreaker-cleanup-crew

nikomatsakis (May 28 2020 at 18:50, on Zulip):

yeah

nikomatsakis (May 28 2020 at 18:50, on Zulip):

I think we kind of already did?

nikomatsakis (May 28 2020 at 18:50, on Zulip):

that is, we have aliases

nikomatsakis (May 28 2020 at 18:50, on Zulip):

I doubt anyone says "ice-breaker" anymore

nikomatsakis (May 28 2020 at 18:50, on Zulip):

:)

Santiago Pastorino (May 28 2020 at 18:52, on Zulip):

yeah, what I meant is that if we are removing the terminology we could also remove that from there :)

Santiago Pastorino (May 28 2020 at 18:52, on Zulip):

Santiago Pastorino said:

team#347 is green

merge this when you can so I can also send the example PR

nikomatsakis (May 28 2020 at 18:53, on Zulip):

I guess LLVM "ice-breaker" too

Santiago Pastorino (May 28 2020 at 18:53, on Zulip):

yep

nikomatsakis (May 28 2020 at 18:54, on Zulip):

we have this ICEBreaker-LLVM label...

nikomatsakis (May 28 2020 at 18:54, on Zulip):

...but maybe we should change to A-LLVM

nikomatsakis (May 28 2020 at 18:54, on Zulip):

and remove that label

nikomatsakis (May 28 2020 at 18:55, on Zulip):

ok, I pushed some commits to that branch

nikomatsakis (May 28 2020 at 18:55, on Zulip):

I have to run in a bit but I'm going to add a few notes to the issue

Santiago Pastorino (May 28 2020 at 18:55, on Zulip):

yeah this ties as you've said with areas :)

Santiago Pastorino (May 28 2020 at 18:55, on Zulip):

nikomatsakis said:

...but maybe we should change to A-LLVM

I'd definitely do this

Santiago Pastorino (May 28 2020 at 18:56, on Zulip):

this are all areas and areas have leads, members and people-to-notify

Santiago Pastorino (May 28 2020 at 18:56, on Zulip):

even cleanup is an area :)

nikomatsakis (May 28 2020 at 18:56, on Zulip):

right

Santiago Pastorino (May 28 2020 at 18:56, on Zulip):

maybe it's triage area or prioritization area :P

nikomatsakis (May 28 2020 at 18:56, on Zulip):

I don't know what the O- stands for

nikomatsakis (May 28 2020 at 18:56, on Zulip):

but whatever

nikomatsakis (May 28 2020 at 18:57, on Zulip):

anyway so I updated compiler-team#282

Santiago Pastorino (May 28 2020 at 18:57, on Zulip):

O- is arch

nikomatsakis (May 28 2020 at 18:57, on Zulip):

"of course"

nikomatsakis (May 28 2020 at 18:57, on Zulip):

because there are so many instances of the letter O in the word "architecture"

nikomatsakis (May 28 2020 at 18:57, on Zulip):

anyway I added these two bullets

Remove "ICE-breaker" terminology from cleanup-crew, LLVM
Remove the ICEBreaker-LLVM label and tag all issues that had it with A-LLVM

Santiago Pastorino (May 28 2020 at 18:58, on Zulip):

I think O- is from Operating System

Santiago Pastorino (May 28 2020 at 18:58, on Zulip):

not arch really ...

nikomatsakis (May 28 2020 at 18:58, on Zulip):

sounds plausible

nikomatsakis (May 28 2020 at 18:58, on Zulip):

anyway yes this is all feeling reasonable

nikomatsakis (May 28 2020 at 18:59, on Zulip):

as you said, I think all the Notification Groups will probalby eventually become "true working groups" with leads/members, but let's leave that for another day

Santiago Pastorino (May 28 2020 at 18:59, on Zulip):

image.png

Santiago Pastorino (May 28 2020 at 18:59, on Zulip):

it's toolchain, target and os :P

Santiago Pastorino (May 28 2020 at 19:02, on Zulip):

@nikomatsakis have also created this https://github.com/rust-lang/team/pull/348

Santiago Pastorino (May 28 2020 at 19:02, on Zulip):

but would need to force push once https://github.com/rust-lang/team/pull/347 is merged

Santiago Pastorino (May 28 2020 at 19:05, on Zulip):

@simulacrum what's the "original" name that triagebot ping uses

Santiago Pastorino (May 28 2020 at 19:05, on Zulip):

I guess it's https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/blob/45127211566c53bac386b66909a830649182ab7a/triagebot.toml#L37

Santiago Pastorino (May 28 2020 at 19:05, on Zulip):

I meant, it's taken from there?

Santiago Pastorino (May 28 2020 at 19:06, on Zulip):

or that's just the label is going to add to the issue?

Santiago Pastorino (May 28 2020 at 19:06, on Zulip):

ahh right is that

Santiago Pastorino (May 28 2020 at 19:06, on Zulip):

so the name is [ping.icebreakers-cleanup-crew]

Santiago Pastorino (May 28 2020 at 19:06, on Zulip):

you do @triagebot ping icebreakers-cleanup-crew

Ryan Levick (May 28 2020 at 19:09, on Zulip):

Regarding members, do you want me to add the people from Microsoft that have already showed interest

Santiago Pastorino (May 28 2020 at 19:11, on Zulip):

@Ryan Levick there's no rush, I've added myself as a way to start

Santiago Pastorino (May 28 2020 at 19:11, on Zulip):

but once this is up yeah, tell them to send PRs

Santiago Pastorino (May 28 2020 at 19:11, on Zulip):

@nikomatsakis last thing #72706

Santiago Pastorino (May 28 2020 at 19:15, on Zulip):

@nikomatsakis to sum up, we have team#347, team#348 (would need a rebase after #347 is in) and #72706

Santiago Pastorino (May 28 2020 at 19:15, on Zulip):

the checklist is also updated

Santiago Pastorino (May 28 2020 at 19:15, on Zulip):

I need to leave for a bit now

Santiago Pastorino (May 28 2020 at 19:15, on Zulip):

:wave:

DPC (May 28 2020 at 20:39, on Zulip):

oops didn't know about this meeting :D. can I be invited to the compiler calendar?

Santiago Pastorino (May 28 2020 at 20:59, on Zulip):

email?

DPC (May 28 2020 at 23:04, on Zulip):

dylan.dpc@gmail.com

Santiago Pastorino (May 29 2020 at 13:45, on Zulip):

DPC said:

dylan.dpc@gmail.com

invited

DPC (May 29 2020 at 13:47, on Zulip):

thanks :slight_smile:

nikomatsakis (May 29 2020 at 16:03, on Zulip):

OK, we should probably pull the trigger on this soon

Last update: Sep 28 2020 at 16:15UTC