Stream: t-compiler/wg-meta

Topic: crates policy


davidtwco (Mar 01 2019 at 10:32, on Zulip):

@WG-compiler-meta Here's a draft of the crates policy that we discussed briefly at the meeting yesterday - I'd appreciate any comments., there's not a lot there but I think I got all that was in the All Hands notes.

Santiago Pastorino (Mar 01 2019 at 13:31, on Zulip):

hey @davidtwco sorry but I am a bit lost, when did we discussed about crates policy?

Santiago Pastorino (Mar 01 2019 at 13:32, on Zulip):

didn't that happen at All Hands?

Santiago Pastorino (Mar 01 2019 at 13:32, on Zulip):

or was that a different meeting

Santiago Pastorino (Mar 01 2019 at 13:34, on Zulip):

are you talking about this https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com/#narrow/stream/185694-t-compiler.2Fwg-meta/topic/meeting.202019.2E02.2E28 meeting?

davidtwco (Mar 01 2019 at 13:34, on Zulip):

It did. But Niko had put "identifying a set of procedures to describe" on the agenda. I then sent this message and mentioned it in the task summary at the end.

davidtwco (Mar 01 2019 at 13:35, on Zulip):

We didn't discuss it, we just mentioned summarising what happened at the All Hands into the repo.

Santiago Pastorino (Mar 01 2019 at 13:35, on Zulip):

yeah, I wasn't fast enough to check quickly that paper doc

davidtwco (Mar 02 2019 at 14:44, on Zulip):

I've updated the draft crates policy after yesterday's steering meeting. Would appreciate another wave of feedback.

cc @T-compiler/meeting and @WG-compiler-meta

nikomatsakis (Mar 12 2019 at 14:13, on Zulip):

So @mw and I were talking and they mentioned that the @WG-self-profile group was mildly blocked on the lack of a policy here

nikomatsakis (Mar 12 2019 at 14:13, on Zulip):

We should discuss what it takes to "finalize" this =)

mw (Mar 12 2019 at 14:14, on Zulip):

I see that the policy has been merged meanwhile

nikomatsakis (Mar 12 2019 at 14:14, on Zulip):

Has it?

mw (Mar 12 2019 at 14:14, on Zulip):

(https://github.com/rust-lang/compiler-team/pull/19)

nikomatsakis (Mar 12 2019 at 14:14, on Zulip):

The PR https://github.com/rust-lang/compiler-team/pull/19 still says Draft?

mw (Mar 12 2019 at 14:14, on Zulip):

right, I went by color :)

nikomatsakis (Mar 12 2019 at 14:15, on Zulip):

yeah, I keep getting confused by that too

mw (Mar 12 2019 at 14:15, on Zulip):

"draft" and "merged" have similar label colors :)

nikomatsakis (Mar 12 2019 at 14:15, on Zulip):

I see that there was some conversation about GH privileges, but I feel like that is something we should discuss separately

nikomatsakis (Mar 12 2019 at 14:15, on Zulip):

that is, we were talking about doing some kind of meeting with @Pietro Albini and other infra folks to try and get a coherent set of GH teams and privileges

mw (Mar 12 2019 at 14:15, on Zulip):

there's also this: https://github.com/rust-lang/rustc-guide/issues/285

nikomatsakis (Mar 12 2019 at 14:15, on Zulip):

my personal take would be that we would just match roughly what rust-lang/rust does, except that maybe some add'l people from WG can be added with r+ for that specific crate

mw (Mar 12 2019 at 14:16, on Zulip):

which I'd be very interested in

mw (Mar 12 2019 at 14:16, on Zulip):

i.e. how to set up all the infrastructure

mw (Mar 12 2019 at 14:16, on Zulip):

like bors

nikomatsakis (Mar 12 2019 at 14:16, on Zulip):

what things do you think fall under rustc-guide#285 that are not part of .. I see

nikomatsakis (Mar 12 2019 at 14:16, on Zulip):

yeah, the policy doesn't say how to do the things

mw (Mar 12 2019 at 14:16, on Zulip):

yes

mw (Mar 12 2019 at 14:16, on Zulip):

but the how is a big part of it

nikomatsakis (Mar 12 2019 at 14:16, on Zulip):

ok, this is very good feedback, so maybe we can make a kind of check-list of what is missing from feeling like this work item is done?

nikomatsakis (Mar 12 2019 at 14:16, on Zulip):

my sense is that the policy is more-or-less "good enough" as a draft

mw (Mar 12 2019 at 14:17, on Zulip):

a template project would be awesome

nikomatsakis (Mar 12 2019 at 14:17, on Zulip):

and we should merge it as a kind of "draft", perhaps enumerating a few unknowns

mw (Mar 12 2019 at 14:17, on Zulip):

sounds good to me

nikomatsakis (Mar 12 2019 at 14:17, on Zulip):

I'd sort of like to be following a vaguely "staged" setup here

nikomatsakis (Mar 12 2019 at 14:18, on Zulip):

maybe we should add to the top of the procedure file a header like

**Status:** Active draft

where we define "active draft" to mean "these guidelines are not finalized but they are generally correct, you should go ahead and follow them but be aware they may change. Feel free to make suggestions for improvements."

nikomatsakis (Mar 12 2019 at 14:18, on Zulip):

and then we can enumerate the unknowns and merg

nikomatsakis (Mar 12 2019 at 14:18, on Zulip):

(cc @davidtwco, do you have a sense of the unknowns? e.g., GH privs might be one)

davidtwco (Mar 12 2019 at 14:19, on Zulip):

I deliberately didn't discuss how to set up the infrastructure as that's more on a infra thing that they could add or elaborate on.

nikomatsakis (Mar 12 2019 at 14:19, on Zulip):

yeah, I don't think it should be part of a "policy", but I do think we should work a bit on it

mw (Mar 12 2019 at 14:19, on Zulip):

yes, sounds good. I think we are at a point where it makes sense to collect active experience

davidtwco (Mar 12 2019 at 14:19, on Zulip):

There's centril's comment.

nikomatsakis (Mar 12 2019 at 14:19, on Zulip):

@centril's comment I think concerns GH privileges?

nikomatsakis (Mar 12 2019 at 14:19, on Zulip):

if so, that was why I listed it as an "unknown to figure out with infra team"

nikomatsakis (Mar 12 2019 at 14:19, on Zulip):

or was there somethign else to it

davidtwco (Mar 12 2019 at 14:20, on Zulip):

In part yeah, but it also discusses the wording of the policy.

nikomatsakis (Mar 12 2019 at 14:20, on Zulip):

I deliberately didn't discuss how to set up the infrastructure as that's more on a infra thing that they could add or elaborate on.

regarding this, @davidtwco, I think a first step would be to list out all the things that we should document -- perhaps as a checklist issue on rustc-guide

nikomatsakis (Mar 12 2019 at 14:20, on Zulip):

then we could try to call some attention to getting that written up, if you don't know the answers

nikomatsakis (Mar 12 2019 at 14:20, on Zulip):

I for one have no idea how to setup bors, for example :P

nikomatsakis (Mar 12 2019 at 14:20, on Zulip):

but I think we should at least start with a crystallized list of the steps one might need to take

nikomatsakis (Mar 12 2019 at 14:20, on Zulip):

that in and of itself is helpful

nikomatsakis (Mar 12 2019 at 14:21, on Zulip):

unless the policy draft already has that, I forget, but it feels like something that maybe shouldn't be in the policy per se. The plicy would probably say "setup the standard infrastructure, as documented here"

davidtwco (Mar 12 2019 at 14:21, on Zulip):

The rustc-guide issue was mainly focused on "how do I work with an out-of-tree crate" - I imagined things like making a local copy to edit and integrating that with a local rustc build rather than the infrastructure surrounding creating the crate.

mw (Mar 12 2019 at 14:22, on Zulip):

The rustc-guide issue was mainly focused on "how do I work with an out-of-tree crate" - I imagined things like making a local copy to edit and integrating that with a local rustc build rather than the infrastructure surrounding creating the crate.

I think the setup part could also be part of the rustc-guide

davidtwco (Mar 12 2019 at 14:22, on Zulip):

It does have a list of steps, but I just hand-wave the infra part away by saying:

Consult with the infrastructure team to set up @bors and @rust-highfive and a process for publishing under the "The Rust Project Developers" crates.io account.

nikomatsakis (Mar 12 2019 at 14:22, on Zulip):

There's centril's comment.

regarding this comment, as I wrote above, I think we should just say that our aim is "anyone with r+ on rust-lang/rust should have r+ on these crates, plus maybe extra people"

mw (Mar 12 2019 at 14:22, on Zulip):

or part of the compiler-team repo

davidtwco (Mar 12 2019 at 14:22, on Zulip):

regarding this comment, as I wrote above, I think we should just say that our aim is "anyone with r+ on rust-lang/rust should have r+ on these crates, plus maybe extra people"

I'll update it to this.

nikomatsakis (Mar 12 2019 at 14:23, on Zulip):

(and we should work out how to make that less annoying to achieve =)

nikomatsakis (Mar 12 2019 at 14:23, on Zulip):

(I usually give core, compiler, lang, infra all admin privileges, I think)

centril (Mar 12 2019 at 14:23, on Zulip):

thanks, that totally assuages my concern

nikomatsakis (Mar 12 2019 at 14:23, on Zulip):

(but it's kind of ad-hoc)

nikomatsakis (Mar 12 2019 at 14:23, on Zulip):

I used to give more groups, e.g. release, but then some people complained for some reason (I forget, maybe @Pietro Albini? Just felt like release didn't need it? Not important.)

davidtwco (Mar 12 2019 at 14:24, on Zulip):

What things do you think are missing from the list of steps that are in the policy currently @mw? Outside of a lack of concrete steps, outside of "ask the infra team", for the infra stuff.

nikomatsakis (Mar 12 2019 at 14:24, on Zulip):

I think the setup part could also be part of the rustc-guide

I'm inclined for rustc-guide, although the division between compiler-team repo and rustc-guide is not entirely clear

mw (Mar 12 2019 at 14:25, on Zulip):

@davidtwco, mostly where to concretely ask of "officially" adding a crate/repo

nikomatsakis (Mar 12 2019 at 14:25, on Zulip):

I guess I feel like we should keep compiler-team repo centered on "policy + tracking" and less on "coding"

mw (Mar 12 2019 at 14:25, on Zulip):

there was talk about having a list of all out-of-tree crates

davidtwco (Mar 12 2019 at 14:26, on Zulip):

davidtwco, mostly where to concretely ask of "officially" adding a crate/repo

It says:

Create a PR modifying this document to include the PRcrate in the list below. Use @rfcbot merge to gain agreement from compiler team members.

mw (Mar 12 2019 at 14:26, on Zulip):

if one could make a PR to that list, that would sufficient, I think

mw (Mar 12 2019 at 14:26, on Zulip):

@davidtwco ah, I see

mw (Mar 12 2019 at 14:26, on Zulip):

then we need the document to get merged :)

centril (Mar 12 2019 at 14:27, on Zulip):

n.b. only compiler team members would be able to use rfcbot

centril (Mar 12 2019 at 14:27, on Zulip):

not anyone can do it

centril (Mar 12 2019 at 14:27, on Zulip):

so I think it would be good to reword: "Ask a compiler team member to @rfcbot merge.."

mw (Mar 12 2019 at 14:28, on Zulip):

@davidtwco but my main need at this point would really be a step by step guide for the setup

nikomatsakis (Mar 12 2019 at 14:28, on Zulip):

there was talk about having a list of all out-of-tree crates

that feels like tracking

nikomatsakis (Mar 12 2019 at 14:28, on Zulip):

so I would put it in the compiler-team repo

nikomatsakis (Mar 12 2019 at 14:28, on Zulip):

if one could make a PR to that list, that would sufficient, I think

and yes this is how I imagined "proposing" a new crate

nikomatsakis (Mar 12 2019 at 14:29, on Zulip):

er, I'm behind, sorry

nikomatsakis (Mar 12 2019 at 14:29, on Zulip):

seems like I'm just agreeing with what exists :)

davidtwco (Mar 12 2019 at 14:29, on Zulip):

so I would put it in the compiler-team repo

It's already in the document.

nikomatsakis (Mar 12 2019 at 14:29, on Zulip):

(although I think maybe the list should be in a separate place)

nikomatsakis (Mar 12 2019 at 14:29, on Zulip):

i.e., I think it is something someone might want to see when browsing the compiler-team repo -- like the list of working groups, a list of the crates, maybe with a bit of information about each one

davidtwco (Mar 12 2019 at 14:29, on Zulip):

davidtwco but my main need at this point would really be a step by step guide for the setup

That makes sense. I think we merge the policy for just now, and I can endeavour to fetch some steps for this from infra - or we use your crate as a test case, and document what we do for that into the policy.

nikomatsakis (Mar 12 2019 at 14:29, on Zulip):

but it's a minor thing, we don't have to block on it

davidtwco (Mar 12 2019 at 14:30, on Zulip):

(although I think maybe the list should be in a separate place)

I can quickly move it in the PR just now if you have a preference as to where it goes.

mw (Mar 12 2019 at 14:30, on Zulip):

@davidtwco we can certainly use the self-profiling crate as a testing ground

Pietro Albini (Mar 12 2019 at 14:30, on Zulip):

(I usually give core, compiler, lang, infra all admin privileges, I think)

heh, maybe I'm too worried about possible issues, but do all those teams need the admin privileges?

nikomatsakis (Mar 12 2019 at 14:31, on Zulip):

@Pietro Albini probably not, I just don't want to wind up blocked because some person is on AFK right now

nikomatsakis (Mar 12 2019 at 14:31, on Zulip):

and we need to do something to ship a new release of the compiler or what have you :)

davidtwco (Mar 12 2019 at 14:31, on Zulip):

davidtwco we can certainly use the self-profiling crate as a testing ground

I figure that would unblock you to get started, and by documenting it for your crate as we go then we solve the issue of "there isn't a concrete list" at the same time.

mw (Mar 12 2019 at 14:34, on Zulip):

@WG-self-profile will keep track of open questions/steps taken here: https://hackmd.io/s/rJelQBSwE#

davidtwco (Mar 12 2019 at 14:35, on Zulip):

So, the only thing blocking the crate policy as it is now from being merged is where we want that crate list.

mw (Mar 12 2019 at 14:35, on Zulip):

(@Wesley Wiser, can you edit this document?)

Wesley Wiser (Mar 12 2019 at 14:36, on Zulip):

@mw Yeah, I seem to be able to edit it

mw (Mar 12 2019 at 14:37, on Zulip):

alright, I try to create the project right now and take notes while doing so...

mw (Mar 12 2019 at 14:38, on Zulip):

since we did already get buy-in for creating the crate with the given name during the last triage meeting

nikomatsakis (Mar 13 2019 at 17:37, on Zulip):

I'm inclined to merge this PR, @davidtwco and reason I should not do so?

davidtwco (Mar 13 2019 at 17:37, on Zulip):

If you'd rather I move the crate list somewhere else, otherwise it's good for now.

nikomatsakis (Mar 13 2019 at 17:38, on Zulip):

can always do that later

Last update: Nov 18 2019 at 00:55UTC