Stream: wg-traits

Topic: organizing going forward


nikomatsakis (Oct 04 2019 at 18:59, on Zulip):

So, how should we organize "this effort"? And what is "this effort"? These things came up this morning in the meeting and I wanted to kick off a discussion here. There are perhaps a few entangled questions.

One idea I wanted to kickout was to setup a standing "meeting time" where we can dig into one particular issue, but the focus rotates. In my mind's eye, I imagine that we have some various goals we are trying to work towards, and each week we pick one of those to talk out. The person working on it describes what they've done and whatever problem they're stuck on. Then we try to talk it out and fix it, and we use this as a chance to "spread knowledge" about how the thing they're doing to do works and generally build up the group. (Honestly, since I'm trying to spend Monday/Friday on this effort, I could even do this more than once a week if it proves useful.)

Of course, the other thing to discuss is what goals we should have and how many. Right now there's kind of a lot of stuff going on, which is awesome, but I would like to kind of list it out and get that a bit more..organized.

nikomatsakis (Oct 04 2019 at 18:59, on Zulip):

Curious what @WG-traits thinks about the above (especially the meeting). Also cc @tmandry with whom I've been discussing this a lot.

nikomatsakis (Oct 04 2019 at 19:00, on Zulip):

One thing I was toying with is the idea of separating out chalk development from rustc development, but I also kind of like the idea of trying to keep it all unified, since I think ideally we'd be bringing the two incrementally closer together, and at minimum experiences from one can and should inform the other.

Sunjay Varma (Oct 04 2019 at 19:12, on Zulip):

I think once a week makes sense. Are there particular things you want to focus on? My image of this wg has always been "get chalk fully integrated into rustc so we can have GATs and other features people have been asking for"

Sunjay Varma (Oct 04 2019 at 19:12, on Zulip):

Curious about whether your vision is more/less/different than what I've had in mind

tmandry (Oct 04 2019 at 20:24, on Zulip):

My ideal would perhaps be a combination of a "formal" meeting once a week, plus "office hours" midway through the week?

nikomatsakis (Oct 04 2019 at 20:25, on Zulip):

seems plausible

nikomatsakis (Oct 04 2019 at 20:25, on Zulip):

I was also thinking that I could try to have 1-on-1s with folks scheduled separately, which would maybe help to (a) ensure feedback and (b) force me to admit when we're trying to do too many things at once :)

tmandry (Oct 04 2019 at 20:26, on Zulip):

(office hours being where people can bring up any implementation issues they're hitting at the time)

tmandry (Oct 04 2019 at 20:27, on Zulip):

I was also thinking that I could try to have 1-on-1s with folks scheduled separately, which would maybe help to (a) ensure feedback and (b) force me to admit when we're trying to do too many things at once :)

that would work too, I'd just like to have a time where I know I can get some support if I need it

nikomatsakis (Oct 04 2019 at 20:28, on Zulip):

yep. Maybe mon/fri aren't the best days to devote to this

nikomatsakis (Oct 04 2019 at 20:28, on Zulip):

I could conceivably change that to mon/wed

tmandry (Oct 04 2019 at 20:28, on Zulip):

maybe office hours are "support" oriented, while 1:1s (which can be less frequent if we have office hours) are more feedback-oriented, say

nikomatsakis (Oct 04 2019 at 21:18, on Zulip):

we've traditionally done Monday at 2pm eastern for these meetings

nikomatsakis (Oct 04 2019 at 21:18, on Zulip):

that seemed to work well for "most folks"

nikomatsakis (Oct 04 2019 at 21:19, on Zulip):

So @WG-traits would 14:00 ET (20:00 Paris time) work for a weekly "in-depth look meeting", to basically try and talk out interesting design questions (on Zulip, I think).

We'd probably also designate some "office hour" time that is separate.

nikomatsakis (Oct 07 2019 at 14:19, on Zulip):

I realize now that this time slot is being used for the parallel meetings

nikomatsakis (Oct 07 2019 at 14:19, on Zulip):

at least on mondays

nikomatsakis (Oct 07 2019 at 14:19, on Zulip):

maybe if I reorg my schedule a bit we could do it on wednesdays tho

nikomatsakis (Oct 07 2019 at 14:19, on Zulip):

and treat monday as "office hour" day :)

scalexm (Oct 09 2019 at 14:10, on Zulip):

Sorry I’m late to the party, but Wednesday evenings would work well for me

nikomatsakis (Oct 09 2019 at 21:22, on Zulip):

I moved the parallel meeting to later, so Monday at 2pm eastern is avail again :)

nikomatsakis (Oct 09 2019 at 21:22, on Zulip):

That still work for you, @scalexm ?

nikomatsakis (Oct 09 2019 at 21:22, on Zulip):

but I could still do Wed at 2pm actually

scalexm (Oct 10 2019 at 13:54, on Zulip):

@nikomatsakis Wednesday is slightly better, although I could go with Monday

scalexm (Oct 10 2019 at 13:54, on Zulip):

Probably we should have some kind of vote

nikomatsakis (Oct 10 2019 at 14:11, on Zulip):

OK, I'm game for either. Let's do a vote here.

nikomatsakis (Oct 10 2019 at 14:11, on Zulip):

/poll When should the trait design meeting be?

nikomatsakis (Oct 11 2019 at 10:50, on Zulip):

OK lotsa votes =) I propose we do Wednesday since @scalexm expressed a slight preference, and I think it works for everyone else.

I'm also planning to block out some time on mon/fri for either office-hours or 1-on-1s. I'm debating the best structure here. Some thoughts:

nikomatsakis (Oct 11 2019 at 10:51, on Zulip):

@tmandry just to confirm, wednesday is ok for you too? :point_up:

nikomatsakis (Oct 11 2019 at 10:51, on Zulip):

I plan to adjust my schedule today in any case

nikomatsakis (Oct 11 2019 at 20:23, on Zulip):

Created an event for the design meeting -- if you would like to be added as an "invitee", let me know.

nikomatsakis (Oct 11 2019 at 20:23, on Zulip):

@WG-traits :point_up: calendar event for design meeting is here, if you'd like to be added let me know

nikomatsakis (Oct 11 2019 at 20:23, on Zulip):

(Sorry for sending same thing twice, but zulip doesn't always notify if I add @ into a msg after the fact)

tmandry (Oct 11 2019 at 22:39, on Zulip):

@nikomatsakis agh sorry, just seeing all this. I have a conflict every other Wednesday at that time :oh_no:

tmandry (Oct 11 2019 at 22:43, on Zulip):

Monday is free, and so is Wednesday at other times (like 2:30 ET)

tmandry (Oct 11 2019 at 22:44, on Zulip):

/me needs to fix his zulip notifications

tmandry (Oct 15 2019 at 21:48, on Zulip):

Also, tomorrow I will be flying, but may be able to attend (at least the first half hour) if the meeting is in Zulip

nikomatsakis (Oct 16 2019 at 00:47, on Zulip):

I suppose I could do 2:30pm -- not sure about @scalexm (that'd be 8:30 CEST)

nikomatsakis (Oct 16 2019 at 00:47, on Zulip):

though it sounds like, for tomorrow, 2pm is good

nikomatsakis (Oct 16 2019 at 18:50, on Zulip):

OK so -- as I wrote elsewhere -- I can't actually do this slot on Wednesday. So Monday at 2pm is best for me.

nikomatsakis (Oct 16 2019 at 18:50, on Zulip):

I'm going to just make that :)

nikomatsakis (Oct 16 2019 at 18:55, on Zulip):

done -- as ever, let me know if you'd like to be "invited"

Sunjay Varma (Oct 16 2019 at 18:56, on Zulip):

Did you mean to only schedule it once? Should it be recurring?

nikomatsakis (Oct 16 2019 at 21:04, on Zulip):

thanks, fixed

Last update: Nov 18 2019 at 01:10UTC