Stream: t-compiler

Topic: steering meeting 2019.03.22 pre-planning


nikomatsakis (Mar 20 2019 at 12:53, on Zulip):

We have a steering meeting planned for this Friday and i'd like to discuss the topics a bit beforehand. You can see the full list of topic ideas from our planning document. I'm going to pull out some of the things I feel most pressing:

there are a bunch of other things I'd love to talk about in that document, though, so take a look. I pulled out the Project Management question because I think getting a better handle on that side of things (our organizational side) would help us achieve all the other things.

nikomatsakis (Mar 20 2019 at 12:54, on Zulip):

cc @T-compiler/meeting

nikomatsakis (Mar 20 2019 at 16:02, on Zulip):

Something that's been on my mind which intersects project management -- figuring out what (a) are the sets of conversations and tasks that we have need of, and (b) how we can make sure they are happening?

Some examples of things we have processes for:

Some examples of things we don't have a clear policies for:

Maybe this is a good thing? If so, I think I would want to start by doing some kind of survey where we try to gather the sorts of things we might be tracking.

I'll note that @mw won't be here this week (PTO), which is a bit of a downer. I'd like their input.

nikomatsakis (Mar 22 2019 at 13:16, on Zulip):

@pnkfelix any thoughts?

nikomatsakis (Mar 22 2019 at 13:16, on Zulip):

I still feel pretty torn :)

nikomatsakis (Mar 22 2019 at 13:17, on Zulip):

Basically the 3 options I listed above, in condensed form:

pnkfelix (Mar 22 2019 at 13:18, on Zulip):

So I know I've used the term "Project Manager" in the past

nikomatsakis (Mar 22 2019 at 13:18, on Zulip):

I think I am leaning against the first, although I consider it important, in part because the 3rd seems like a useful .. precursor to it? It's a bit unclear what I even mean by that

pnkfelix (Mar 22 2019 at 13:18, on Zulip):

but it might be good to tease out exactly what

pnkfelix (Mar 22 2019 at 13:18, on Zulip):

you intend for that role to be

nikomatsakis (Mar 22 2019 at 13:19, on Zulip):

Yeah I was just thinking -- maybe just trying to make more precise what we think we might need

nikomatsakis (Mar 22 2019 at 13:19, on Zulip):

that is sort of the same as the 3rd thing but perhaps more narrow in focus

nikomatsakis (Mar 22 2019 at 13:19, on Zulip):

I don't have a very good definition yet, I can only explain a bit by analogy

pnkfelix (Mar 22 2019 at 13:19, on Zulip):

okay

pnkfelix (Mar 22 2019 at 13:19, on Zulip):

I only now realized you were covering the same ground as I was working towards in my feedback

pnkfelix (Mar 22 2019 at 13:19, on Zulip):

so okay

nikomatsakis (Mar 22 2019 at 13:20, on Zulip):

seems like we both had similar intutions, though I can't quite tell if you are asking me to try and enumerate now what I mean, or thinking that a meeting could be good for figuring that out

pnkfelix (Mar 22 2019 at 13:20, on Zulip):

I guess I just didn't want you to say

nikomatsakis (Mar 22 2019 at 13:20, on Zulip):

I lean a bit towards the latter :)

pnkfelix (Mar 22 2019 at 13:20, on Zulip):

"Hey we need a project manager, any volunteers"

pnkfelix (Mar 22 2019 at 13:20, on Zulip):

without spelling it out more

nikomatsakis (Mar 22 2019 at 13:20, on Zulip):

I see

nikomatsakis (Mar 22 2019 at 13:21, on Zulip):

on the topic of roadmap review, I don't know how general that would be either :)

nikomatsakis (Mar 22 2019 at 13:21, on Zulip):

I have some specific concerns I think we are not meeting

nikomatsakis (Mar 22 2019 at 13:21, on Zulip):

(and I kind of don't know what to do about it at the moment)

nikomatsakis (Mar 22 2019 at 13:22, on Zulip):

(specifically, I think we should be spending some effort working with people who use rustc to make sure we understand their scenarios, or profiling and identifying cases we think we should improve)

nikomatsakis (Mar 22 2019 at 13:22, on Zulip):

but I also feel like we've got more projects than we really have "bandwidth" for :) in some sense

nikomatsakis (Mar 22 2019 at 13:23, on Zulip):

and I'm loath to go about creating more

pnkfelix (Mar 22 2019 at 13:23, on Zulip):

well

pnkfelix (Mar 22 2019 at 13:23, on Zulip):

identifying potential projects

pnkfelix (Mar 22 2019 at 13:23, on Zulip):

is still useful

pnkfelix (Mar 22 2019 at 13:23, on Zulip):

as long as we collectively understand

pnkfelix (Mar 22 2019 at 13:23, on Zulip):

that identification != commitment to follow through

nikomatsakis (Mar 22 2019 at 13:23, on Zulip):

yes. one thought I had is just talking about ideas of what we could do, and then worry a bit later about how to find people to be doing it

nikomatsakis (Mar 22 2019 at 13:24, on Zulip):

I also think that some of the pieces we need -- I'm thinking mostly of the self-profile stuff -- isn't there, so we could talk a bit about that.

pnkfelix (Mar 22 2019 at 13:24, on Zulip):

It took me a little while to appreciate what you did at the start of this topic, spelling out all the things we already do

nikomatsakis (Mar 22 2019 at 13:24, on Zulip):

(i.e., look for technical hurdles)

pnkfelix (Mar 22 2019 at 13:24, on Zulip):

or need to do

nikomatsakis (Mar 22 2019 at 13:24, on Zulip):

I don't consider that a complete list ;)

pnkfelix (Mar 22 2019 at 13:24, on Zulip):

you may want to transcribe those two lists into some shared document

pnkfelix (Mar 22 2019 at 13:24, on Zulip):

for further brainstorming

nikomatsakis (Mar 22 2019 at 13:24, on Zulip):

yeah

nikomatsakis (Mar 22 2019 at 13:25, on Zulip):

good idea

nikomatsakis (Mar 22 2019 at 13:25, on Zulip):

I'd like to try and get the list as granular as we can to start

nikomatsakis (Mar 22 2019 at 13:25, on Zulip):

I'll make a paper doc I guess

pnkfelix (Mar 22 2019 at 13:25, on Zulip):

meaning as fine-grained as possible?

nikomatsakis (Mar 22 2019 at 13:28, on Zulip):

yeah, though maybe that's not so important

nikomatsakis (Mar 22 2019 at 13:28, on Zulip):

I guess I mean sort of "specific"

nikomatsakis (Mar 22 2019 at 13:28, on Zulip):

but I figured we can start with general

nikomatsakis (Mar 22 2019 at 13:28, on Zulip):

I'm mostly imagining things like this: we currently have a "WG lead" concept

nikomatsakis (Mar 22 2019 at 13:28, on Zulip):

but it's not very clear what that is

nikomatsakis (Mar 22 2019 at 13:28, on Zulip):

and I suspect it can be broken down into a number of roles

nikomatsakis (Mar 22 2019 at 13:29, on Zulip):

which might indeed be shared out, or rotated

nikomatsakis (Mar 22 2019 at 13:29, on Zulip):

e.g., reporting to the triage meeting

nikomatsakis (Mar 22 2019 at 13:29, on Zulip):

scribing meetings

nikomatsakis (Mar 22 2019 at 13:29, on Zulip):

technical mentoring

nikomatsakis (Mar 22 2019 at 13:29, on Zulip):

etc

nikomatsakis (Mar 22 2019 at 13:29, on Zulip):

so i'd like it if we can say (to start) things like "a working needs to report to the triage meeting" -- and then maybe we say "often a lead does items 1, 3, and 6" but ..

nikomatsakis (Mar 22 2019 at 13:29, on Zulip):

etc

nikomatsakis (Mar 22 2019 at 13:30, on Zulip):

anyway I created a paper doc, in the folder for @WG-meta, but I have to run to another meeting for a bit :)

nikomatsakis (Mar 22 2019 at 13:30, on Zulip):

I guess we'll wing it today :) I am thinking maybe we'll some announcements, then maybe a bit of discussion about the short-term stuff

nikomatsakis (Mar 22 2019 at 13:30, on Zulip):

I had a bunch of things I thought about announcing, though now of course I forget what they were :)

nikomatsakis (Mar 22 2019 at 13:30, on Zulip):

/me hopes they come back

pnkfelix (Mar 22 2019 at 13:32, on Zulip):

I don't know about "wing it"

pnkfelix (Mar 22 2019 at 13:33, on Zulip):

seems like there's plenty of meat on the agenda. Or at least seeds for conversations.

nikomatsakis (Mar 22 2019 at 13:55, on Zulip):

OK, this is my proposed format.

First, announcements (5-15min). People can make announcements of things they think are cool or interesting. We'll extend to 15min as needed.

In the meantime, I'll make a poll. People can vote and, at the end, we'll choose between:

We've got a lot of good projects planned, but I'm concerned that we need to also be sure we are understand the problems people face in everyday compiling. Among other things, I suspect there is still low-hanging fruit to be picked, but also I'm not convinced we have a good picture of what consumes the time when compiling (and it might not even be in the compiler). I'd like us to be able to say "not only are we working on RLS 2.0, but we've made serde 5% faster" (or whatever). Discuss.

Can we try to enumerate what are some of things the compiler team needs to be tracking? What communication is (or should) be happening? I'd like us to be able to come up with a good list of all the things we think should be happening, so that we can compare against our existing processes, and try to ensure they are covered (or adjust the processes as needed).

nikomatsakis (Mar 22 2019 at 13:55, on Zulip):

I guess I have to look into how to make a poll :)

QuietMisdreavus (Mar 22 2019 at 13:56, on Zulip):

whoops, had the format wrong >_>

nikomatsakis (Mar 22 2019 at 13:56, on Zulip):

wrong topic :)

nikomatsakis (Mar 22 2019 at 13:56, on Zulip):

but thanks!

QuietMisdreavus (Mar 22 2019 at 13:56, on Zulip):

yikes, had the format wrong

QuietMisdreavus (Mar 22 2019 at 13:57, on Zulip):

but it's /poll to create a poll, and the args to the poll are its title

QuietMisdreavus (Mar 22 2019 at 13:57, on Zulip):

(and now i can't delete it :sweat:)

nagisa (Mar 22 2019 at 20:15, on Zulip):

@nikomatsakis @QuietMisdreavus there is a topic in #genaral somewhere which has the full syntax out there, including the one that allows adding options with the command

nagisa (Mar 22 2019 at 20:15, on Zulip):

https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com/#narrow/stream/122651-general/topic/Zulip.202.2E0

QuietMisdreavus (Mar 22 2019 at 20:15, on Zulip):

right, that's the post i was trying to remember, but i remembered it wrong

nagisa (Mar 22 2019 at 20:15, on Zulip):

https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com/#narrow/stream/122651-general/topic/Zulip.202.2E0/near/160203167

Last update: Nov 22 2019 at 05:55UTC