Stream: zulip

Topic: #crate/xxx streams?


Joshua Liebow-Feeser (Oct 19 2018 at 13:49, on Zulip):

How would folks feel about allowing streams of the form #crate/xxx for xxx-specific discussion? A lot of large or high-profile crates end up creating their own communication channels for discussion and development, and it'd be nice if those could live on one of the popular Rust communication platforms.

pnkfelix (Oct 19 2018 at 13:53, on Zulip):

#crate ? do crates have numbers?

davidtwco (Oct 19 2018 at 13:53, on Zulip):

I think the # is just the # that all streams have.

davidtwco (Oct 19 2018 at 13:53, on Zulip):

#wg-nll

pnkfelix (Oct 19 2018 at 13:54, on Zulip):

oh oh oh

nikomatsakis (Oct 19 2018 at 14:05, on Zulip):

What about #crate-foo?

nikomatsakis (Oct 19 2018 at 14:05, on Zulip):

Some crates will merit multiple streams

nikomatsakis (Oct 19 2018 at 14:06, on Zulip):

and we have this kind of #category-<identifier> thing going on

nikomatsakis (Oct 19 2018 at 14:06, on Zulip):

alternatively we could rename our streams to #team/foo/bar but that would (I presume..?) break links etc so meh

nikomatsakis (Oct 19 2018 at 14:06, on Zulip):

in general, though, I like the idea

nikomatsakis (Oct 19 2018 at 14:07, on Zulip):

although I am mildly nervous about moderation load etc, we probably need to make some more policies in that regard

nikomatsakis (Oct 19 2018 at 14:07, on Zulip):

and bug zulip to enable people to be able to silence others on their own

Joshua Liebow-Feeser (Oct 19 2018 at 14:08, on Zulip):

Yeah, presumably there'd need to be a policy that it's the crate maintainers' responsibilities to ensure that moderation is in place.

nikomatsakis (Oct 19 2018 at 14:09, on Zulip):

I think we should probably make a stream or something (present by default) where moderators are present

nikomatsakis (Oct 19 2018 at 14:09, on Zulip):

so people can flag trouble there?

davidtwco (Oct 19 2018 at 14:09, on Zulip):

t-moderation

nikomatsakis (Oct 19 2018 at 14:09, on Zulip):

and of course we need to start enabling moderators

Joshua Liebow-Feeser (Oct 19 2018 at 14:09, on Zulip):

Yeah.

davidtwco (Oct 19 2018 at 14:09, on Zulip):

And the corresponding group ping for those people.

nikomatsakis (Oct 19 2018 at 14:09, on Zulip):

:+1: to the group ping

nikomatsakis (Oct 19 2018 at 14:10, on Zulip):

I guess I can create such a group

nikomatsakis (Oct 19 2018 at 14:10, on Zulip):

I think I'll just call it moderators

nikomatsakis (Oct 19 2018 at 14:10, on Zulip):

among other things, I don't necessarily think we should expect all members to be on the "moderation subteam"

Joshua Liebow-Feeser (Oct 19 2018 at 14:10, on Zulip):

Why would you need multiple streams for a given crate, though? If, e.g., wg-traits is good enough for the WG... do we expect individual crates to have more discussion than WGs?

nikomatsakis (Oct 19 2018 at 14:10, on Zulip):

we are trying to change the culture of moderation in rust to be more a "shared responsibilitiy"

nikomatsakis (Oct 19 2018 at 14:11, on Zulip):

that said, I'd like to hold off on the crate-specific streams a bit I think

nikomatsakis (Oct 19 2018 at 14:11, on Zulip):

just because I'd like to raise it in core team mtg

nikomatsakis (Oct 19 2018 at 14:11, on Zulip):

it feels like something where they may be thoughts + opinions that don't occur to me immediately

Joshua Liebow-Feeser (Oct 19 2018 at 14:11, on Zulip):

Mmmk. Let me know once this has been discussed; I've got a crate I'm going to publish soon that will probably warrant a discussion medium like a Zulip stream.

davidtwco (Oct 19 2018 at 14:11, on Zulip):

I'm a fan of anything that encourages more people to be on Zulip and lets me close my Discord pinned tab.

nikomatsakis (Oct 19 2018 at 14:12, on Zulip):

I'll add to core team agenda

nikomatsakis (Oct 19 2018 at 14:12, on Zulip):

@Joshua Liebow-Feeser thanks for thinking outside the box :)

davidtwco (Oct 19 2018 at 14:12, on Zulip):

It's similar-ish to crates being able to have their own channels on IRC.

Joshua Liebow-Feeser (Oct 19 2018 at 14:12, on Zulip):

@nikomatsakis Hahaha np

lqd (Oct 19 2018 at 14:16, on Zulip):

it would be super nice to help not having multiple zulip tabs/windows so we could get #salsa and #chalk in here :)

DPC (Oct 19 2018 at 20:44, on Zulip):

Was thinking of this last month. Would be great to have something like this. Gitter is buggy.

bjorn3 (Oct 21 2018 at 17:03, on Zulip):

What about #zzcrate-foo? That way I believe it will get at the bottom of the steams list

nikomatsakis (Oct 31 2018 at 19:02, on Zulip):

BTW, I raised this with the core team. There was a bit of pushback, though most people there felt a bit more comfortable than I do. I remain pretty nervous about doing anything that would (potentially) massively expand the scope of the Zulip until we have a solid moderation story in place. Which probably argues for pushing harder on that moderation story.

In any case, one concern was around the topic of evangelizing etc. I don't think the intention was to wind up promoting the Zulip instance as the "correct" place for Rust crates to have streams/discussion-channels, but it could well have that effect. More specifically, if e.g. the #wg-secure-code working group were (say) invite crates to open channels here, it might imply a certain "official-ness" that we're not sure we want to imply.

nikomatsakis (Oct 31 2018 at 19:02, on Zulip):

Sorry for being slow to post that feedback

nikomatsakis (Oct 31 2018 at 20:27, on Zulip):

I think the main thing then is:

lqd (Nov 01 2018 at 10:40, on Zulip):

some of the nursery's seem to fit quite nicely ? (chalk, polonius, salsa, maybe the SIMD ones, etc)

nikomatsakis (Nov 01 2018 at 14:09, on Zulip):

Yes, interesting. For official rust-lang crates (which excludes salsa, as an aside) this seems like a good fit.

gnzlbg (Nov 02 2018 at 10:55, on Zulip):

can we clarify a bit if we have a set of crates in mind already?

I'd guess that rust-lang / rust-lang-nursery crates could ask for it, but for other crates, we might want to create a different organization (e.g. rust-crates) that's moderated by the moderation team.

gnzlbg (Nov 02 2018 at 10:57, on Zulip):

For example, rayon currently use gitter, is there interest in moving to zulip ? Its not in the nursery / rust-lang, but is kind of a "official" crate =/

nikomatsakis (Nov 02 2018 at 14:21, on Zulip):

I've thought about moving rayon off of Gitter from time to time, but never mustered up the energy (LALRPOP too). I definitely think it'd be useful to have a kind of "default place" for crates to hang out -- sort of like docs.rs provides a convenient place to host your docs, but you're not forced to use it.

That said, I'm not sure I'd choose Zulip for that place. Even though I find Zulip really great, it's definitely a higher barrier to entry than e.g. Discord, and a lot of people have trouble with the mobile app and other things, sadly (I know they're working hard on it).

In any case, creating streams for rust-lang (and rust-lang-nursery, which I'd prefer to just merge with rust-lang anyhow) creates is a very different idea than creating streams for arbitrary crates, I think, since those crates actually are official. =)

DPC (Nov 02 2018 at 15:51, on Zulip):

I think it will be nice if all crates are here (even those not part of the rust-lang or nursery). The barrier of entry is a hurdle though especially for people who will join just to ask for help. Who knows some of them might start lurking in the other official wg streams and help around and contribute to the ecosystem

gnzlbg (Nov 03 2018 at 15:46, on Zulip):

I'd like to have a (single) channel for the simd crates (stdsimd and packed_simd).

Last update: Nov 17 2019 at 07:25UTC