Stream: zulip

Topic: Issues with Zulip


gnzlbg (Nov 26 2018 at 16:41, on Zulip):

@Mazdak Farrokhzad did you solve your issues with zulip ? Otherwise it might be worth it to fill them upstream (its open source, and can be changed)

centril (Nov 26 2018 at 16:45, on Zulip):

@gnzlbg not really and I don't have the time to change how Zulip works

gnzlbg (Nov 26 2018 at 17:20, on Zulip):

@Mazdak Farrokhzad you seem to have enough time to complain about zulip every now and then, my point is only that complaining here is pretty much pointless, and that this time would be better spent complaining in a github issue in Zulip upstream - i don't think I suggested that you go and change zulip yourself.

blitzerr (Dec 07 2018 at 18:26, on Zulip):

I would love zulip to support notifications at a topic level unless the feature already exists and we can laugh at my ignorance. :slight_smile:

gnzlbg (Dec 10 2018 at 18:12, on Zulip):

@blitzerr you can open an issue in zulips repository: https://github.com/zulip/zulip

blitzerr (Dec 10 2018 at 18:21, on Zulip):

Thanks a lot for pointing me to the repo @gnzlbg. Will do that

davidtwco (Jan 29 2019 at 10:27, on Zulip):

Yeah. Zulip's featureset mostly targets companies where there isn't a big need for moderation because everyone is an employee.

pnkfelix (Jan 29 2019 at 10:27, on Zulip):

Honestly though there are bigger issues/features that I would want Zulip to address, in terms of trying to convince other teams to adopt it. Highest priority is probably an option to turn on a publicly visible log. Many of us really want to provide world-readable links that don't require Zulip logins.

centril (Jan 29 2019 at 10:29, on Zulip):

(I'm really happy with Discord for the lang team at least... :P I would want Discord to have goodies for the compiler team to get y'all there)

pnkfelix (Jan 29 2019 at 10:29, on Zulip):

(I recognize that isn't a "policy" topic per se. But its one of those things where I guess I'm debating how much I'd push the Zulip devs to add feature X as part of preparing for future usage needs, when I'm not sure that we're even going to see much uptake without them independently adding feature Y.)

pnkfelix (Jan 29 2019 at 10:30, on Zulip):

I really dislike Discord

pnkfelix (Jan 29 2019 at 10:30, on Zulip):

I find it quite difficult to manage the list of notifications I get there (there is no list)

pnkfelix (Jan 29 2019 at 10:31, on Zulip):

Obviously I am a fan of Zulip's innovations, but even just for everyday usage I'm at a loss to understand why everyone loves Discord so much.

davidtwco (Jan 29 2019 at 10:31, on Zulip):

Discord just doesn't feel like a tool for getting work done to me.

pnkfelix (Jan 29 2019 at 10:32, on Zulip):

Anyway sorry I probably sent this topic off into a fork

centril (Jan 29 2019 at 10:32, on Zulip):

@pnkfelix @davidtwco :wave:

davidtwco (Jan 29 2019 at 10:34, on Zulip):

Moved some messages over to this topic.

centril (Jan 29 2019 at 10:36, on Zulip):

top things about Zulip that bothers me: 1) it's ugly and looks unpolished, 2) it uses too little horizontal real-estate, 3) is there an android app?, 4) my draft message disappears if I click outside the input area, 5) moving messages or starting new topics is too cumbersome... it's too much for "getting work done"

centril (Jan 29 2019 at 10:37, on Zulip):

I understand that the compiler team needs to be less ephemeral about things; most other teams don't have so many issues all the time tho

davidtwco (Jan 29 2019 at 10:37, on Zulip):

I think the main things I'd like to see are:

davidtwco (Jan 29 2019 at 10:37, on Zulip):

There is an android app.

centril (Jan 29 2019 at 10:38, on Zulip):

I also feel like I get notifications from all the streams when I'm on zulip so I just turned it off

davidtwco (Jan 29 2019 at 10:39, on Zulip):

You can mute streams. I only get notifications from pings.

centril (Jan 29 2019 at 10:39, on Zulip):

that's what I did

centril (Jan 29 2019 at 10:45, on Zulip):

generally I feel that Zulip feels "designed by programmers" rather than by UX folks

davidtwco (Jan 29 2019 at 10:45, on Zulip):

That's probably true.

RalfJ (Jan 29 2019 at 12:27, on Zulip):

fair. and yet its UI is more readable and makes more sense than Discord, IMO.^^ Discord doesnt really feel "designed by UX" folks either, or at least not by UX folks that had our usecase in mind (lots of channels but most people only interested in a few, good integration of group and private chats).

RalfJ (Jan 29 2019 at 12:28, on Zulip):

but I agree Zulip's UI is not good either for the "newcomer wants to get help" usecase

pnkfelix (Jan 29 2019 at 12:52, on Zulip):

Maybe its okay to employ one service for Rust users and another for Rust developers? There's the overhead of having to learn (and log into) two distinct services, but I'm not sure I'd expect too much cross-linking between those two places. Well, maybe Rust developers would link to Q's of Rust users to explain motivations for proposed changes.

davidtwco (Jan 29 2019 at 13:07, on Zulip):

I've always thought that Zulip was a good choice for contributors, but Discord is better and works great for everything else.

centril (Jan 29 2019 at 13:38, on Zulip):

I don't think there's an "our use case"; what fits a team like T-Lang doesn't fit T-Compiler, imo

centril (Jan 29 2019 at 13:39, on Zulip):

T-compiler is more centered around GH issues and such

centril (Jan 29 2019 at 13:39, on Zulip):

whereas language design doesn't have many small issues that need topics

davidtwco (Jan 29 2019 at 13:40, on Zulip):

Zulip doesn't require you have lots of topics though. You can just have a handful for the few things that are being discussed.

pnkfelix (Jan 29 2019 at 13:42, on Zulip):

whereas language design doesn't have many small issues that need topics

i don't agree with this claim.

centril (Jan 29 2019 at 13:54, on Zulip):

I think it's fair to say that smaller implementation issues are taken care of by the compiler team; most long running lang design things are done via github, and the ephemeral things usually don't need topics. At least that's my feeling... sometimes topics would be good for discussing something with a small group of people tho.

In the end, the core team made a decision to favor Discord... and until such time that Zulip has better UX I don't think other teams will switch. I'm also weary of fragmenting our discussion platforms too much.

RalfJ (Jan 29 2019 at 14:03, on Zulip):

UCG is on Zulip, and we have used the topic feature there. not as extensively as the compiler team, but it definitely helped -- both for some organization during the discussion, but also to easier find discussions again a week later

pnkfelix (Jan 29 2019 at 14:12, on Zulip):

I won't argue with other teams finding value in going with whatever the core team uses.

pnkfelix (Jan 29 2019 at 14:13, on Zulip):

In my personal experience, catching up on past conversations (either reading ones relevant to me carefully, or skimming others) is something I can at least attempt to do on Zulip. On Discord, there's simply no point in making a similar attempt. Which is fine, as long as everyone present understands it as an entirely transient communication platform.

centril (Jan 29 2019 at 14:16, on Zulip):

as long as everyone present understands it as an entirely transient communication platform.

It's my impression people do understand it's ephemeral? (tho the search functionality let's me find old discussions a week later without too much work...).

I won't dispute that the threading model has benefits sometimes; but it feels unpolished in Zulip and too much "in your face"; there are also the other UI and UX issues that makes it worse than Discord for some people. Most of the UI issues seem well understood? in particular, varkor listed a bunch of them. If people here want more people to use Zulip over Discord, then the solution is to make sure the necessary improvements get made.

davidtwco (Jan 29 2019 at 14:19, on Zulip):

I'd like it if there was some milestone or label on the Zulip project that we could file issues against and then people interested in solving Rust's issues with Zulip (I've been hoping to find some time to do so for a while) could work through.

lqd (Jan 29 2019 at 18:51, on Zulip):

(we could probably "discordify" the visuals if we wanted to :)

RalfJ (Jan 31 2019 at 18:27, on Zulip):

is there an issue for making stream subscription more discoverable? the fact that you have to click the gear is very non-obvious. just replacing that by a + would already help a lot I think.

nikomatsakis (Jan 31 2019 at 18:29, on Zulip):

@RalfJ there is https://github.com/zulip/zulip/issues/10369

nikomatsakis (Jan 31 2019 at 18:30, on Zulip):

I personally think a + would not help

nikomatsakis (Jan 31 2019 at 18:30, on Zulip):

it looks to my eyes like "create a new stream"

nikomatsakis (Jan 31 2019 at 18:30, on Zulip):

but I agree that some small changes to indicate that the list of streams is not "complete" would prob suffice

nikomatsakis (Jan 31 2019 at 18:30, on Zulip):

maybe even just saying "Your Streams" instead of "Streams"

eddyb (Feb 16 2019 at 11:30, on Zulip):

I barely used the the mobile app just now and it shows up as 10% of battery usage (Screen is 15% and IRCCloud which I use more is 2%), my phone got really hot and the keyboard started lagging

eddyb (Feb 16 2019 at 11:31, on Zulip):

both problems solved by force-stopping Zulip and Gboard

RalfJ (Feb 23 2019 at 09:01, on Zulip):

tracking makes me sad :( https://github.com/zulip/zulip/issues/11657

Rein Zustandâš™ (Apr 03 2019 at 19:56, on Zulip):

Honestly though there are bigger issues/features that I would want Zulip to address, in terms of trying to convince other teams to adopt it. Highest priority is probably an option to turn on a publicly visible log. Many of us really want to provide world-readable links that don't require Zulip logins.

Btw, publicly visible log is now within reach, using the script made by the Lean Prover community (https://leanprover-community.github.io/archive/, archived periodically via https://github.com/leanprover-community/leanprover-community.github.io/blob/master/import.py). The log will live on a gh-page. If I were to try this on this realm, would there be objections on privacy ground? I tried mirroring chat.zulip.org and it took ~45 min for the initial mirror but wasn't permitted to publish the logs unless if I anonymize the names. Alternatively, I could publish a subset of the streams as well.

Last update: Nov 17 2019 at 07:05UTC