Stream: general

Topic: general questions


Harrison Bachrach (Feb 26 2020 at 17:56, on Zulip):

Is this Zulip an appropriate place for general questions from a Rust beginner? Or should that go in the Discord?

Yerkebulan Tulibergenov (Feb 26 2020 at 18:05, on Zulip):

Discord is probably a better place, if your questions are just general in nature.

XAMPPRocky (Feb 26 2020 at 21:10, on Zulip):

@Harrison Bachrach I believe you can ask a question here if it's related to rust / the rust project in some way. Here's our documentation on what is considered appropriate conversation.

Appropriate conversation

In most streams, you should try to keep conversations related to team business. The #general stream is a bit broader, but even there, discussions should be closely related to Rust (though may not relate to projects of any particular team). All channels are expected to be used for discussions related to the Rust project, though; discussions of (for example) wildlife or sightseeing are not appropriate.

https://forge.rust-lang.org/chat/zulip.html#appropriate-conversation

Jake Goulding (Feb 26 2020 at 21:17, on Zulip):

Appropriate, sure. As high-traffic and visibility as Discord, probably not.

Jake Goulding (Feb 26 2020 at 21:17, on Zulip):

(as you can see you got 3 responses in nearly that many hours...)

Harrison Bachrach (Feb 26 2020 at 22:03, on Zulip):

Gotcha--so the Zulip is more focused on people working on Rust itself? As opposed to people working with rust?

Lokathor (Feb 26 2020 at 22:14, on Zulip):

yes that's the general split of it

Lokathor (Feb 26 2020 at 22:15, on Zulip):

even the official Rust Discord is mostly for people working on Rust rather than with Rust.

for working with Rust you probably want the Rust Community Discord

Jake Goulding (Feb 27 2020 at 19:15, on Zulip):

The #rust-usage and #beginners Discord channels seem to be people working with Rust.

Michal Siedlaczek (Mar 12 2020 at 17:46, on Zulip):

So are all teams migrating to Zulip now? Or is it by-team? Is this because of some of Zulip features that were missing in Discord?

centril (Mar 12 2020 at 17:48, on Zulip):

By team

centril (Mar 12 2020 at 17:49, on Zulip):

and some teams are sorta in both places

XAMPPRocky (Mar 12 2020 at 18:01, on Zulip):

@Michal Siedlaczek It is per team. Personally Zulip has a lot more features than Discord for getting Rust work done. (Though it's not perfect, there some things that still easier on Discord)

Michal Siedlaczek (Mar 12 2020 at 18:03, on Zulip):

@XAMPPRocky Thanks, I noticed most of l10n languages created streams here, should we follow suit with polish, you think? I guess it makes sense since the main team stream is here, right?

XAMPPRocky (Mar 12 2020 at 18:03, on Zulip):

@Michal Siedlaczek I'll ask the admins to make a polish stream.

Michal Siedlaczek (Mar 12 2020 at 18:04, on Zulip):

sweet, thanks.

XAMPPRocky (Mar 12 2020 at 18:06, on Zulip):

One of the main benefits of Zulip is you can email notifications. Which makes easier for people who don't want to keep extra chat clients open to be involved.

Michal Siedlaczek (Mar 12 2020 at 18:07, on Zulip):

yeah, that was my first thought when I found out about this, "yet another chat app" :D

Michal Siedlaczek (Mar 12 2020 at 18:07, on Zulip):

I haven't even heard of Zulip before so I'm curious to see what it's about

Santiago Pastorino (Mar 12 2020 at 18:12, on Zulip):

@Michal Siedlaczek pretty sure you're gonna love the threading system :)

centril (Mar 12 2020 at 18:12, on Zulip):

I personally find it quite unergonomic to split threads in Zulip

Michal Siedlaczek (Mar 12 2020 at 18:15, on Zulip):

@Santiago Pastorino @centril I guess no such thing as perfect solution; but I gotta say that what I like immediately is this "All messages" view, and shortcuts capabilities seem to be much more powerful than Discord's

centril (Mar 12 2020 at 18:16, on Zulip):

To sum up how I feel about Zulip: It doesn't feel designed by interaction designers; rather, it feels more like how backend hackers would do it.

LeSeulArtichaut (Mar 12 2020 at 18:16, on Zulip):

But there are functionalities that you might only have on Discord, such as pinned messages or voice chats. I'm not sure they are used much, but maybe some teams can't go without it?

centril (Mar 12 2020 at 18:17, on Zulip):

Discord just feels more polished and has better UX, even if it doesn't have some features some would want here.

LeSeulArtichaut (Mar 12 2020 at 18:18, on Zulip):

Discord is for-profit, though

LeSeulArtichaut (Mar 12 2020 at 18:19, on Zulip):

And there have been few vehement articles regarding privacy too

Santiago Pastorino (Mar 12 2020 at 18:19, on Zulip):

centril said:

Discord just feels more polished and has better UX, even if it doesn't have some features some would want here.

agreed on all you have said, but still the benefits of Zulip are better IMO than the ones on Discord

Santiago Pastorino (Mar 12 2020 at 18:19, on Zulip):

I literally can't use Discord

Santiago Pastorino (Mar 12 2020 at 18:20, on Zulip):

can't follow it

centril (Mar 12 2020 at 18:20, on Zulip):

@LeSeulArtichaut Does that really matter? GitHub is for profit. Rust is used for things I consider anti-social (e.g., crypto-currency, ...).

LeSeulArtichaut (Mar 12 2020 at 18:24, on Zulip):

@centril

Does that really matter?

I think everyone has a different opinion on this. I was just thinking about what were the pros and cons of Discord.

Rust is used for things I consider anti-social (e.g., crypto-currency, ...)

Rust is meant to do anything C can do, right? Including... things we consider anti-social :slight_smile:

centril (Mar 12 2020 at 18:24, on Zulip):

Put simply, "There is no such thing as ethical consumption under capitalism"

XAMPPRocky (Mar 12 2020 at 18:25, on Zulip):

That doesn't mean you should do nothing or always take the unethical choice.

LeSeulArtichaut (Mar 12 2020 at 18:25, on Zulip):

We always come back to this. Capitalism.

LeSeulArtichaut (Mar 12 2020 at 18:26, on Zulip):

Anyway we should probably stop there before it goes into politics stuff :big_smile:

XAMPPRocky (Mar 12 2020 at 18:26, on Zulip):

I do think chat platforms matters in ways GitHub does not, one being that you can't move your chat infrastructure between platforms..

centril (Mar 12 2020 at 18:26, on Zulip):

@XAMPPRocky of course; that's not the implication, but I don't think "don't use Discord" is a strategic choice in my struggle to overthrow capitalism... :slight_smile:

centril (Mar 12 2020 at 18:26, on Zulip):

LeSeulArtichaut said:

Anyway we should probably stop there before it goes into politics stuff :big_smile:

Too late... :D

centril (Mar 12 2020 at 18:26, on Zulip):

Seriously though, let's stop ^,-

LeSeulArtichaut (Mar 12 2020 at 18:27, on Zulip):

Or hide
Or go back to trying to understand rustc_infer, AKA hitting your head against a wall

centril (Mar 12 2020 at 18:28, on Zulip):

XAMPPRocky said:

I do think chat platforms matters in ways GitHub does not, one being that you can't move your chat infrastructure between platforms..

Without talking about politics...
...I don't really buy that. It has been way easier to move between chat platforms than it would be to move to e.g., GitLab or something.

centril (Mar 12 2020 at 18:29, on Zulip):

Our repo organization is much more deeply integrated in tooling, search history, etc.

XAMPPRocky (Mar 12 2020 at 18:31, on Zulip):

To be clear I'm not saying any infra change is easy.

Michal Siedlaczek (Mar 12 2020 at 18:42, on Zulip):

Is Zulip self-hosted?

XAMPPRocky (Mar 12 2020 at 18:43, on Zulip):

@Michal Siedlaczek It can be. Our instance is hosted by the Zulip devs.

Michal Siedlaczek (Mar 12 2020 at 18:43, on Zulip):

@XAMPPRocky gotcha.

XAMPPRocky (Mar 12 2020 at 18:45, on Zulip):

@Michal Siedlaczek If you do find any bugs or things you'd want to improve I recommend filing an issue on GitHub, the devs are pretty responsive. https://github.com/zulip/zulip

Michal Siedlaczek (Mar 12 2020 at 18:48, on Zulip):

@XAMPPRocky thanks, will do

Ben (Mar 14 2020 at 13:09, on Zulip):

I'm interested in contributing to the project in a way that relates to a personal project I've been working on. It's a BinHeap priority queue that allows for selection of specific entries by ID for modification (such as priority change, removal, etc) in HashMap lookup time and other performance tweaks. I've submitted an issue to the async-rs projects futures-timer repo, and waiting to hear back. Also going to plug away at priority_queue crate.

Can anyone think of anywhere in the rust project itself that might be friendly to such a thing?

pachi (Mar 14 2020 at 14:05, on Zulip):

@Ben those are mainly in the realm of the #t-libs and #wg-async-foundations team and working group. You should get in contact with them. All help is always very welcome (though people may be busy and response time may depend on their free time)

Ben (Mar 14 2020 at 14:16, on Zulip):

ty :D

RalfJ (Mar 15 2020 at 10:31, on Zulip):

centril said:

Discord just feels more polished and has better UX, even if it doesn't have some features some would want here.

broken email notifications, way too tiny default size (given the bad contrast between text and background), annoying "top bar ads" after clearing local storage, an entire lack of proper "stream/channel" management, a somewhat awkward UI flow for doing searches...
I could list quite a lot of things that are bad about discord's UX. I agree that Zulip's is much closer to "coder's UI", and of course being a coder I am biased towards that, but Discord has caused me more UX trouble than literally any other chat system I never used. That's anecdotal evidence, sure, but still.

Lokathor (Mar 16 2020 at 16:18, on Zulip):

I have never relied on email notifications for Discord, nor would I ever. Their email system is terrible. Ya just gotta open the app in a browser tab and check it once a day, or have it on your phone and get a push notification that way.

XAMPPRocky (Mar 16 2020 at 16:56, on Zulip):

@Lokathor I don't even think you can enable email notifications in discord anymore.

Lokathor (Mar 16 2020 at 16:56, on Zulip):

All the more reason to not rely on them ;3

Last update: Jun 05 2020 at 22:20UTC