Stream: general

Topic: rust-contrib-at-jobs


davidtwco (Aug 02 2018 at 12:13, on Zulip):

Was watching the "How Rust Does Open Development" talk this morning and on this slide it mentions "help people advocate at their jobs" - does the project have any resources aimed at companies for this? Particularly for people who want to advocate for having some time to contribute as part of their job? It's something I've thought about recently but it'd be cool if there were white paper-esque resources prepared that explain why it could be beneficial for companies or something along those lines.

lqd (Aug 02 2018 at 16:17, on Zulip):

@davidtwco reminds me of this talk and I think the in-progress rust website which will have materials like this https://github.com/rust-lang/rust-marketing (but there's not much there just yet)

davidtwco (Aug 02 2018 at 16:19, on Zulip):

@lqd thanks, I'll give that a watch.

Santiago Pastorino (Aug 02 2018 at 18:44, on Zulip):

Oh, had no idea about https://github.com/rust-lang/rust-marketing

Santiago Pastorino (Aug 02 2018 at 18:44, on Zulip):

I was just telling Niko that I was preparing a why Rust? talk

Santiago Pastorino (Aug 02 2018 at 18:44, on Zulip):

and plan to push it to a repo and make it OSS

Santiago Pastorino (Aug 02 2018 at 18:44, on Zulip):

I feel that this kind of talks are very repetitive

Santiago Pastorino (Aug 02 2018 at 18:44, on Zulip):

have seen a bunch already

Santiago Pastorino (Aug 02 2018 at 18:45, on Zulip):

I feel like sharing something could be useful :)

Santiago Pastorino (Aug 02 2018 at 18:45, on Zulip):

what do you people think?

pnkfelix (Aug 02 2018 at 20:44, on Zulip):

I think a bunch of us have also open-sourced our slide decks

pnkfelix (Aug 02 2018 at 20:45, on Zulip):

I wanted to make something that other people could contribute to; that was largely what led me to make both tango and mon-artist

pnkfelix (Aug 02 2018 at 20:45, on Zulip):

but they for the most part have remained my own private tools

pnkfelix (Aug 02 2018 at 21:14, on Zulip):

i guess its good that it looks like we're trying to take a more structured holistic approach

Santiago Pastorino (Aug 03 2018 at 14:04, on Zulip):

@pnkfelix can you share what you have?

Santiago Pastorino (Aug 03 2018 at 14:05, on Zulip):

I figured there's a lot of very good material but in my humble opinion I haven't found something that make 100% sense to me

Santiago Pastorino (Aug 03 2018 at 14:05, on Zulip):

I haven't seen all the material out there probably

pnkfelix (Aug 03 2018 at 14:05, on Zulip):

it depends on what you are looking for

Santiago Pastorino (Aug 03 2018 at 14:05, on Zulip):

I figured there's a lot of very good material but in my humble opinion I haven't found something that make 100% sense to me

I mean, in the sense of explaining basic concepts and why Rust is important

pnkfelix (Aug 03 2018 at 14:05, on Zulip):

but I can certainly point you at my own slides and their source code

Santiago Pastorino (Aug 03 2018 at 14:06, on Zulip):

my talk title is "why Rust?"

pnkfelix (Aug 03 2018 at 14:06, on Zulip):

slides: http://pnkfx.org/presentations/

Santiago Pastorino (Aug 03 2018 at 14:06, on Zulip):

I guess that give you more or less an idea about what's the plan

Santiago Pastorino (Aug 03 2018 at 14:06, on Zulip):

the idea is to convince people that have no idea about Rust

Santiago Pastorino (Aug 03 2018 at 14:06, on Zulip):

convince them that Rust is great

pnkfelix (Aug 03 2018 at 14:06, on Zulip):

in particular, I think http://pnkfx.org/presentations/craftconf-2017-deploy/craftconf-2017.html is one of the most mature ones

Santiago Pastorino (Aug 03 2018 at 14:06, on Zulip):

cool

Santiago Pastorino (Aug 03 2018 at 14:06, on Zulip):

will check that out

Santiago Pastorino (Aug 03 2018 at 14:07, on Zulip):

the best thing I have seen in that regard is one @nikomatsakis gave

Santiago Pastorino (Aug 03 2018 at 14:07, on Zulip):

QCon

pnkfelix (Aug 03 2018 at 14:07, on Zulip):

the source code for all of my slide decks can be found here: https://github.com/pnkfelix/presentations/

Santiago Pastorino (Aug 03 2018 at 14:07, on Zulip):

http://smallcultfollowing.com/Rust-QCon.pdf

pnkfelix (Aug 03 2018 at 14:07, on Zulip):

there's a branch in my repo for each one

Santiago Pastorino (Aug 03 2018 at 14:07, on Zulip):

@pnkfelix great

pnkfelix (Aug 03 2018 at 14:07, on Zulip):

and they are almost always rust crates

pnkfelix (Aug 03 2018 at 14:07, on Zulip):

that use tango to build the slides

pnkfelix (Aug 03 2018 at 14:07, on Zulip):

(and that way the code gets "tested" in some sense.)

Santiago Pastorino (Aug 03 2018 at 14:08, on Zulip):

that's cool :)

pnkfelix (Aug 03 2018 at 14:08, on Zulip):

((though i do not support doing compile-fail testing in tango. not yet at least.))

pnkfelix (Aug 03 2018 at 14:08, on Zulip):

yes I imagine Niko's talk(s) would be good to aspire to

pnkfelix (Aug 03 2018 at 14:09, on Zulip):

honestly the only issue I could have with them is the use of tools like Keynote. :)

Santiago Pastorino (Aug 03 2018 at 14:09, on Zulip):

hehe, yeah

pnkfelix (Aug 03 2018 at 14:09, on Zulip):

(which I do love using myself, but I think one needs to use markdown if you want collaboration)

Santiago Pastorino (Aug 03 2018 at 14:09, on Zulip):

I was building the slides using remark.js

pnkfelix (Aug 03 2018 at 14:09, on Zulip):

((which is why I tend to go with tango)

Santiago Pastorino (Aug 03 2018 at 14:09, on Zulip):

but I'm fine with using whatever is free/open source

pnkfelix (Aug 03 2018 at 14:09, on Zulip):

this for example is the source for my craft 2017 presentation: https://github.com/pnkfelix/presentations/tree/craftconf-2017/craftconf-2017/src

pnkfelix (Aug 03 2018 at 14:10, on Zulip):

so you can see the neat ascii-art based diagramming

Santiago Pastorino (Aug 03 2018 at 14:10, on Zulip):

that's great :)

pnkfelix (Aug 03 2018 at 14:11, on Zulip):

That craft presentation perhaps spent too much time explaining stuff in C++ first

pnkfelix (Aug 03 2018 at 14:11, on Zulip):

so its possible one would be better off looking at an earlier talk

Santiago Pastorino (Aug 03 2018 at 14:11, on Zulip):

:+1:

pnkfelix (Aug 03 2018 at 14:11, on Zulip):

such as my QCon London 2016 talk: http://pnkfx.org/presentations/qcon-london2016-deploy/qcon-london2016.html#/

Santiago Pastorino (Aug 03 2018 at 14:11, on Zulip):

so ... do you think what I'm trying to do is worth?

Santiago Pastorino (Aug 03 2018 at 14:12, on Zulip):

I always find talks too specific

Santiago Pastorino (Aug 03 2018 at 14:12, on Zulip):

or with something that is not that shareable

Santiago Pastorino (Aug 03 2018 at 14:12, on Zulip):

my plan is to have a Rust selling talk everyone can reuse

Santiago Pastorino (Aug 03 2018 at 14:12, on Zulip):

and have each with presenter notes

Santiago Pastorino (Aug 03 2018 at 14:12, on Zulip):

so everybody can agree more or less on what to say

pnkfelix (Aug 03 2018 at 14:12, on Zulip):

Well maybe I need to better understand the problem you are trying to solve

pnkfelix (Aug 03 2018 at 14:13, on Zulip):

e.g., what do you see as the issue(s) with an example like Niko's QCon talk? Why not just use that?

pnkfelix (Aug 03 2018 at 14:13, on Zulip):

(one drawback I can imagine is: not everyone is niko. i.e., it might need a script to go along with it, so the presenter knows what the point of each element on each slide is...)

Santiago Pastorino (Aug 03 2018 at 14:14, on Zulip):

I see a couple of tiny issues

Santiago Pastorino (Aug 03 2018 at 14:14, on Zulip):

one keynote :P

Santiago Pastorino (Aug 03 2018 at 14:14, on Zulip):

but that's not very important

Santiago Pastorino (Aug 03 2018 at 14:14, on Zulip):

the "issues" I see in the content

Santiago Pastorino (Aug 03 2018 at 14:14, on Zulip):

in my humble opinion

Santiago Pastorino (Aug 03 2018 at 14:14, on Zulip):

it jumps very quickly to talk about ownership and borrowing

Santiago Pastorino (Aug 03 2018 at 14:15, on Zulip):

I'd probably explain the problem it solves first

Santiago Pastorino (Aug 03 2018 at 14:15, on Zulip):

Rust Programming book does that very well

pnkfelix (Aug 03 2018 at 14:15, on Zulip):

I see

pnkfelix (Aug 03 2018 at 14:15, on Zulip):

take a look at my craft talk then

pnkfelix (Aug 03 2018 at 14:15, on Zulip):

it might help on that front

Santiago Pastorino (Aug 03 2018 at 14:15, on Zulip):

I'm not sure if that's an issue, because, maybe Niko's talk was for a different audience

Santiago Pastorino (Aug 03 2018 at 14:15, on Zulip):

and also ... Niko's talk was build for himself

pnkfelix (Aug 03 2018 at 14:15, on Zulip):

sure, but your point still stands

pnkfelix (Aug 03 2018 at 14:16, on Zulip):

for a general "selling rust" talk, you need to assume very little of the audience

pnkfelix (Aug 03 2018 at 14:16, on Zulip):

in fact

pnkfelix (Aug 03 2018 at 14:16, on Zulip):

I did make another talk

pnkfelix (Aug 03 2018 at 14:16, on Zulip):

that was aimed at more high-level decision makers

Santiago Pastorino (Aug 03 2018 at 14:16, on Zulip):

and also ... Niko's talk was build for himself

with this I mean, when I see a slide that says eat your spinach, what should I talk about? :)

Santiago Pastorino (Aug 03 2018 at 14:16, on Zulip):

that's why I propose to add presenter notes, so everyone can agree on what to see

Santiago Pastorino (Aug 03 2018 at 14:17, on Zulip):

start to open issues or PR with changes to the talk

Santiago Pastorino (Aug 03 2018 at 14:17, on Zulip):

then if somebody is going to reuse, can get the slides and adapt

pnkfelix (Aug 03 2018 at 14:17, on Zulip):

with this I mean, when I see a slide that says eat your spinach, what should I talk about? :)

yes I agree with that. That's what I meant too when I said "not everyone is niko" and that perhaps one needs a script.

Santiago Pastorino (Aug 03 2018 at 14:17, on Zulip):

but I guess we can have a thing that we can agree on most

pnkfelix (Aug 03 2018 at 14:18, on Zulip):

so this talk was much shorter and aimed, to some degree, at non-programmers: http://pnkfx.org/presentations/rust-marcomms-agency-day-2016/slides.html

Santiago Pastorino (Aug 03 2018 at 14:18, on Zulip):

with this I mean, when I see a slide that says eat your spinach, what should I talk about? :)

yes I agree with that. That's what I meant too when I said "not everyone is niko" and that perhaps one needs a script.

yes, and at the same time the script helps contributor to the presentation and users of the presentation to agree more or less on the content

Santiago Pastorino (Aug 03 2018 at 14:19, on Zulip):

so this talk was much shorter and aimed, to some degree, at non-programmers: http://pnkfx.org/presentations/rust-marcomms-agency-day-2016/slides.html

cool

pnkfelix (Aug 03 2018 at 14:19, on Zulip):

(I remember when I gave the presentation, after I asked the audience about the development background, I proceeded to essentially skip over the explanation(s) of dangling pointers)

pnkfelix (Aug 03 2018 at 14:19, on Zulip):

So I definitely cannot claim that slide deck was the right one for that group

Santiago Pastorino (Aug 03 2018 at 14:19, on Zulip):

yep

Santiago Pastorino (Aug 03 2018 at 14:20, on Zulip):

the Rust marketing book seemed similar to what we are talking about

Santiago Pastorino (Aug 03 2018 at 14:20, on Zulip):

from what I've seen ...

Santiago Pastorino (Aug 03 2018 at 14:20, on Zulip):

but in a different format, in the format of a book rather of a presentation

Santiago Pastorino (Aug 03 2018 at 14:20, on Zulip):

at least parts of it seem similar

pnkfelix (Aug 03 2018 at 14:22, on Zulip):

the part of my craftconf talk that I'm perhaps happiest about

pnkfelix (Aug 03 2018 at 14:22, on Zulip):

is the parallelism part

pnkfelix (Aug 03 2018 at 14:22, on Zulip):

in that I give a demo of some code

pnkfelix (Aug 03 2018 at 14:22, on Zulip):

C++ code. And show its parallel-ized form. And I start benchmarking it.

pnkfelix (Aug 03 2018 at 14:23, on Zulip):

but then after discussing how well C++ is scaling up, I point out that there's a bug, and you almost never see it until you try to deploy to 100's of threads.

pnkfelix (Aug 03 2018 at 14:24, on Zulip):

I don't know how well it goes over in practice, but for me, that sort of magic trick is a great way to get someone to realize how bad the situation is.

pnkfelix (Aug 03 2018 at 14:25, on Zulip):

I probably need to take more inspiration from Niko's slides

pnkfelix (Aug 03 2018 at 14:25, on Zulip):

in terms of cutting back on the sheer amount of material that I always try to cover in my own slide decks

qmx (Aug 03 2018 at 15:15, on Zulip):

I was building the slides using remark.js

TIL about remark, thanks for bringing it up!

Santiago Pastorino (Aug 03 2018 at 15:26, on Zulip):

but then after discussing how well C++ is scaling up, I point out that there's a bug, and you almost never see it until you try to deploy to 100's of threads.

this is an amazing way to show up this kind of stuff

Santiago Pastorino (Aug 03 2018 at 15:27, on Zulip):

probably you can start with tiny examples, showing what Rust does

Santiago Pastorino (Aug 03 2018 at 15:27, on Zulip):

then I guess, at some point, an example like what you propose is a great way to finish convincing people :)

Last update: Nov 22 2019 at 00:00UTC